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Exeter Sunday

 
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Exeter Sunday - 9/17/2008 12:23:53 PM   
TonyC

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: offline 		Excellent event. Jason and I were considering bailing due to the rain. We decided to take our time and ride our best. Worked well for me, but jason struggled. I think he spent too much time capitalizing on his celebrity status.. the kid knows everyone!! The sections were tough but cleanable, except for Danny Allens, I think number 4?. I coudnt make that damn turn at the top of the second rock. The loop was tough!! It was challenging to clean that at speed. We both struggled to finish on time, I was late and docked points. Jason had a tough time finishing with the sections still in place, as the checkers started cleaning up early.
Every event I attend, I get more confused as to the rules. I've been taking Bills advice and get away with what I can, learn from the experience and hope for the best.
Also, one last thought, is it just me or is 5 laps 1 too many? It seems like I have to rush to finish and I am not one to waste time. I suppose I could do the sr adv, but then that eliminates the friendly competition amongst our group.
Post #: 1
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/17/2008 12:54:19 PM   
danwilms

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		Taking up golf

< Message edited by danwilms -- 9/28/2008 10:33:30 PM >
Post #: 2
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/17/2008 3:07:46 PM   
Jason G


Posts: 59
Joined: 10/20/2007
Status: offline 		I completely agree with the 1 less loop thing. I think I mentioned it to you Tony? Don't remember.

I would definatly be for a rule that allowed (and encouraged) trials masters to cut the number of loops to 4 on rainy days or events with long loops. I'm finding it a real rush to finish these events on time. It seems like unless you rush the first 2 loops, you find yourelf way behind on the rest.

And then there seems to be a little bit of confict between the Champs doing 4 loops, and other people doing 5. It's happened a couple of times that I've been rushed for time only to find myself stuck behind a champ rider, which is made worse by the fact that they often have very long sections. Absolutly nothing against the champ riders, they really need the extra time for their sections, but I think that it's a bit of an issue worth mentioning.

In general, I would just like to have a bit more time (or less riding for logistics) for the events, so that it doesn't feel like a race.

And the loop was a bit of a pain. I'm sure no one would mind bypassing the slippery, rocky bit of the path between expert 2 and 3 for example.

Aside from that, though, I really liked the event. Would have been a blast if it was dry. I feel that the layout of the sections were the best I've riden yet. There were really a lot of refreshingly unique lines and obsticals that differentiated it from the norm.
Post #: 3
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/17/2008 7:55:15 PM   
motofire


Posts: 920
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline 		Im in favor of 4 loops also. It allows more time for people to study the sections. Also it would allow those who are almost out of time from trail racing...thats gonna get someone hurt.

The Champs only do 4 loops.
Post #: 4
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/17/2008 10:36:05 PM   
rbott

 

Posts: 323
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		I have ridden trials for a long time and I took this season off to focus on the enduro series. If you want 4 loops, ride the Senior class. The Advanced and Expert class should be 5 loops and the Champ class should also be 5 loops. They are supposed to be the BEST and they ride one less loop, most absurd thing I have ever heard.

The first few years I rode trials I had a tough time finishing 5 loops on time, I was always rushing on the 4th and 5th loop. Then I realized that the section is not going to change by you staring at it and walking it over and over again. Scope the whole section, take a few extra looks at the parts that you think will give you trouble and then ride it.

Don't spend a bunch of time between loops back at your vehicle, stop and get some water, put your new scorecard on and get out there on your next loop. After the 1st loop you should pretty much have the sections in memory, only walk the ones you had a lot of trouble with on the prior loop.

Last season I would be on my last loop when some guys would only be on there 3rd loop.

It is all about time management, once you learn it you will get the 5 loops in without a problem. You will not learn it overnite though, it may take a season or two. On the tough events that it is either bad weather or a long loop then you may still use all the time.

Ryan

_____________________________

2009 Husaberg FE450
2008 KTM 250 XCF
2008 Husaberg FE550
2004 KTM 950 Adventure
Post #: 5
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 8:04:11 AM   
STEVEC


Posts: 68
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline 		I think seniors should only do one loop...

Seriously though, I have to respectfully disagree with Ryan about time management. There have been discussions about this subject  on other forums but I feel that trials should be more about riding skills in sections rather than having to worry about finishing on time. There are other types of bike competitions that test time management skills. There certainly should be an overall limit but one that everyone can comfortably ride without putting themselves at risk. Just one person's opinion...

_____________________________

Feet up!
Post #: 6
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 9:31:48 AM   
motofire


Posts: 920
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline 		Well said Steve...

If I could ride the Senior class I would....I have 2 years to go.

I have spent my time racing and ripping through the woods. I want to be able to study the sections and improve there, thats why I got into trials.

Ryan I have seen you on the loop...You fly no doubt about that but I thought it was also a little unsafe. I cant imagine too many people doing that.

I have never had a time penalty...but I want to enjoy the event and compete within the ribbons...not on the trail.

Post #: 7
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 10:09:35 AM   
husabob

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 12/28/2007
From: New Hampster, USA!
Status: offline 		Since I ride Vintage, which does (only) 4 loops, I have no vested interest in this discussion, but I do have some suggestions. How about considering starting the classes that ride 5 loops 30 or 60 minutes earlier, and having those sections checked by other competitors who ride 5 loops? Or maybe making the end time for 5 loops 3:30, with no grace period after that? I'm sure other people have similar or better suggestions. What say you?
Post #: 8
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 10:52:28 AM   
TonyC

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: offline 		I wouldn't go to the extreme as to not show up for an event due to the loop. I don't think this one was that bad. However, this has been an issue for Dan for some time, so maybe it needs further thought?
Steve is right on. It should be about your ability in a section.
I manage my time quite well. Typically we arrive early. Go out and ride the loop and walk the sections. When it is start time, I was jumping ahead and avoiding the crowd at #1. Quick stop between loops for water and card change and then off again. Still rushed to finish on time. Even got cuaght by Bill trying to manage my time better at the Berry farm.
This last event. we arrived alittle later, so we only had time to check out the first two sections beforehand. We started on number 1. As we progressed to 3 and on, we walked the sections as we waited for our turn. No extra time spent. After each loop, quick drink and score card change. As we pulled up to each section, there was typically no line, Icalled out to the checkers.. "anything changed?" if they said no, we rode right in and through the section, no time wasted. Still rushed.
Maybe extend the time then? Heck, the event takes up the entire day anyway.
As a "B" class harscramble winner and mountain bike racer, I'm not slow on the trail and actually enjoy racing around them. But, it is more enjoyable for me to challenge myself in sections.
Post #: 9
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 12:03:05 PM   
motofire


Posts: 920
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline 		The xtra time idea is good IMO...though from a club standpoint it would make for quite a long day...and then theres protest period too. As it is now were not leaving events until late in the day.
Post #: 10
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 1:40:30 PM   
unicycletrialscr500

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/8/2008
Status: offline 		How about taking points away for every minute before 3?  Then I might have a chance!!  Course, I'd have to be 45 minute early.
Post #: 11
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 4:07:16 PM   
danwilms

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		Taking up golf

< Message edited by danwilms -- 9/28/2008 10:33:54 PM >
Post #: 12
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 5:55:19 PM   
Jason G


Posts: 59
Joined: 10/20/2007
Status: offline 		I agree that more time would be nice, but I can see that being a problem for many people. Earlier is probably even worse. If the events started much earlier, then elmost everyone would have to arrive the day before and camp. At events like this, where you can't camp, you have to stay in a hotel, which costs money (going back to the economy thing), and drives people away. Husabob's idea COULD work, but it seems to complicated to ever really catch on- too many people doing too many different things.

I would be interrested, then, to see exactly how many people would really be opposed to riding 4 loops.

Better yet, maybe we should say you drop one loop [edit: only if you're doing 5 loops]. That way, if you feel like doing 5, you can go ahead, and gain a slight edge on the people who only do 4. Would anyone be against that?


Going back to the time thing- I managed to race around the last loop in just under 20 minutes ( for reference, I was doing 45 minutes for the 3 loops before it, without getting off my bike to check the sections, and without taking any break at the pits) to make the cutoff, but it wasn't fun! I had 3 fives that I would have likely cleaned. I got 15 minutes of penalty points as well for being late. 30 points tacked onto your score just for getting stuck behind the pack kinda sucks!

< Message edited by Jason G -- 9/18/2008 8:09:43 PM >
Post #: 13
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 6:17:18 PM   
tbutland

 

Posts: 71
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		Dan has alot of insight and good observations about the current status of our wonderful sport. I'm hoping to bring some thoughts for discussion at the annual NETA meeting this year. As a NEW trials organizer this year and putting on my first event in Vermont, I learned alot, made some mistakes and hopefully will be able to make some adjustments to take into account inclement weather and keeping things safe and FUN for all levels in future events. His observation that the majority of the support, that keeps our events going and functional comes from the Senior(age) and less skilled riders, who want to have safe and fun trials is right on..We all enjoy watching the talented group of riders we have in New England, but if we don't look after our dedicated group of backbone supporters, ( that means listen to what they are saying and take action), we will continue to struggle with , family attendance, checkers and dwindling rider numbers. In Vermont, we have been trying to have an Expert loop and a Novice loop, which I think is working for the most part. Having said that, we did have a couple of parts of the Novice loop, that were ok dry, but very difficult with the rain we had. I have to take the hit for that, as I was advised by some of the other GMP members, that a couple of spots would be trouble with rain..Hopefully I've learned my lesson.

Ride on,
Tom

Tom
Post #: 14
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 7:18:04 PM   
motofire


Posts: 920
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tbutland

I'm hoping to bring some thoughts for discussion at the annual NETA meeting this year. Ride on,


Tom
Tom...or anyone for that matter,

Feel free to start up a new thread on any rule changes, or discussions you want to propose at the meeting. Last year we did and at the time it seemed the discussion here was useless it actually worked out pretty good at the meeting.

John
Post #: 15
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 7:45:05 PM   
danwilms

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		Taking up golf

< Message edited by danwilms -- 9/28/2008 10:34:16 PM >
Post #: 16
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 8:05:44 PM   
tbutland

 

Posts: 71
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		Dan, thanks for the positive feedback..

John, great idea. I'll start a thread discussion on possible changes as soon as I get the detail of my ideas alittle more firmed up.
Post #: 17
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/18/2008 9:02:50 PM   
laser1

 

Posts: 128
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline 		I second Jason's idea of having a optional 5th loop. Heck - even 3 loops for the seniors. Maybe at the trial masters discretion ,if for instance, given heavy rain or even for extreem heat/humidity. I know this sounds kinda wimpy, but fits along the "keep it enjoyable" theme of several of the threads.

Fun is good
Trebor




Post #: 18
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/19/2008 9:04:12 AM   
sherpa82

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 2/8/2007
Status: offline 		Dan: As usual you offer great insight. As a senior A rider who came in 2nd this last weekend I thought the sections were very well thought out and challenging. The loop as usual was tough on my body and my bike but I had a great time bashing my way through to each section. I knew it would be a tough event when I came and I got what I expected. The reality of it all is that as much as I enjoyed the day, the poor guy who I brought along with me for his first trial got destroyed! I could see the look on his face as he got further in to the loop, 1st having a great fun time on section 1 then progressively harder and harder until by the time he got to section 4 he was all done for the day. This is a guy who has been racing in various types of motorcycle sports his whole life. We've all heard this story before, but this time I lived it first hand. The guys in our group assured him that not all NETA events are this difficult and I think he will be back to try it again, but another experience like this for him and we may see a nice o6 sherco up for sale. What a loss that would be.

I feel like a broken record as I have had this discussion maney times with maney people. We must consider as a priority the least experienced rider when laying out the sections and the loop. If NETA is going to put junior riders in the novice sections, then the loop should be suitable for the most inexperienced junior rider. What sence does it make to have an easy section if you get worn out trying to get to it. The guy that was with me felt that he might have been able deal with the sections had the loop not been so hard, the combination of the two was just too much.

As a trials master myself I try to practice  what I preach at the events I put on. Its very difficult to get the right combination of loop and sections. Last year I think I was too easy as we had several clean sweeps in the novice sections and two ride offs. This year at least one of those guys has moved up and is currently in contention for class champ in intermediate, I would like to think that maybe his desire for more challenge was the reason why he made the move up, the fact that he's doing so well proves the formula works.

Make the sections challenging for less experienced riders, the top guys will move up when they get bored. Its called progression.

And now I will step down off my soap box.
Post #: 19
RE: Exeter Sunday - 9/23/2008 12:25:14 AM   
dabber5

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 9/22/2008
Status: offline 		Hi,
Dave A here. (Trialsmaster of last Sunday)
I like to get feedback of my events be it positive or negative, so this discussion is useful to me.
I thought my event went well, but the rain took a lot of the enjoyment out of it.  It would of been a low scoring event if it was dry.
We had a Senior B rider with a "1" loop and a Senior A rider with a "3" loop.
The top riders in the advanced class had "10" point loop.
Tim Thorp pulled off a "5 point loop" on his last loop in the expert class.
Gary and Louise were a couple points apart (41 and 43) which is a 10 point loop.
New England has had events where the top scores have been over 90 in the wet, so I know it wasn't too tough.  No question, the advanced guys worked the hardest.
I thought about reducing the loops, but we didn't have that many riders to justify it.  The loop length was slightly shorter than last year.
I agree with Ryan, 5 loops are doable if you don't spend too much time walking the sections.  If there are over 75 riders, then you may have a problem.
CHAMPS SHOULD DO 5 LOOPS!
Since when does a class get to vote at the banquet?  It should of gone out to all the members to vote on.

As far as Novice riders go, I don't know what we are doing that is different from what we did 5 years ago.
I think we have an aging core group of members (including myself!) with very few younger riders coming into the mix.
We have had good riders drop out and it wasn't because of tough loops.
The cost of fuel, the economy, and family commitments.
People don't have the free time they used too.
Trials is a commitment. You have to practice and be in shape to be competitive.
So there are two groups we have to cater to.
The "ride for fun" people and the "competitors". 
An overly easy trial with a 1/4 mile loop would be a bore for the majority.
A punishing loop and scores over 90 scares off the newbes and "ride for fun" people.
Something in the middle works. a ridable loop and safe, technical sections where the worst rider can paddle through with nothing worse than a 3.
If you can't ride that, ride the beginner sections, there are no lines to wait in there!
That's my take.
Post #: 20
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