idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting

idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting

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idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 10/27/2008 7:58:54 PM

blackduc98

Posts: 243
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: MA - Boston area
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Am I the only one who gets physically sick from smelling exhaust while waiting in line? Leaded race gas mixed with oil in a 2-stroke engine that doesn't burn cleanly at idle is not healthy stuff to breathe. If you're waiting in line, and the 5 bikes in front of you are all idling ... well you get the picture. I've come home from events, and my throat would be burning until the next day. This can't be good for the health of our younger riders either!

Could we make it a requirement that only the bike at the front of the line is allowed to run its engine?

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RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 10/30/2008 1:46:07 PM

STEVEC

Posts: 68
Joined: 1/29/2007
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blackduc, didn't you forget the

?

Seriously though, good point. Most riders will shut down when waiting in line but usually on hot days because they're worried about overheating, not because of the rider behind them. Most of the time riders are so focused on the upcoming section that they may not even think of how their exhaust is affecting the guy behind them.

I'm not sure that a shut-down rule would work though - look how many other rules are ignored. Maybe a mention at the meeting might get something going. It wouldn't hurt to promote the idea. Trialsmasters might start suggesting it at riders meetings etc. I think most riders would comply with a friendly reminder once the issue was out there.

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RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 10/30/2008 1:58:00 PM

Dav5049915

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Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Cape Cod, MA
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nice idea. though whats worse is when you're waiting on your line at a harescramble and the 2stoke in front of you revs up to clear out the oil.

YUCK.

breathing in the fumes is just overall a bad thing.

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RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 10/30/2008 7:53:18 PM

Gord

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Joined: 3/22/2008
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My bike is air cooled so I always shut down as soon as possible.
But I remember being at Vintage Motorcycle Days in Ohio, at the moto-cross track. Had to be a hundred bikes all fire up at the same time. Never saw anything like it. A cloud of 2 cycle smoke hovered over the area that filled my lungs, eyes and nose that I'll never forget. As much as I love 2 cycles, (ride a 3 cylinder, 74 H1 2 stroke to work every day) that was brutal.

Post #: 4

RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 10/31/2008 4:01:39 PM

Rick

Posts: 52
Joined: 1/2/2007
From: Essex, VT
Status: offline

You guys are daft. I love the smell of two stroke on and early summers morning, there's nothing like it. Though there are some brands of oil that really do stink. I'm not sure what the heck some of you guys are burning. My favorite was always the original blend of Bardhal back in the 70s........good stuff.

Maybe what we really need is the manufacturers to start making scented oils. I believe the model car / airplane guys have scented oils. Pine scent comes to mind, that would be cool. That might even keep the Eco Terrorist from nosing us out. Ipone had/has a strawberry scented oil but I just couldn't ever smell any strawberry in that smoke.

As for the health aspect, I suspect I'll die of something much worse than the occasional two stroke inhilation.

Eventually the electric trials bike will take over and all the smells and sounds of a good old fashion trials event will be gone forever.

Post #: 5

RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 10/31/2008 4:44:53 PM

tbutland

Posts: 72
Joined: 1/25/2008
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Rick where have you been, you've missed all the fun..Loving two-stroke exhaust, now I know you have been working too hard. Besides, the 4 strokes are coming..

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RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 10/31/2008 9:18:04 PM

MattR

Posts: 291
Joined: 1/31/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick

You guys are daft. I love the smell of two stroke on and early summers morning, there's nothing like it. Though there are some brands of oil that really do stink. I'm not sure what the heck some of you guys are burning. My favorite was always the original blend of Bardhal back in the 70s........good stuff.

Maybe what we really need is the manufacturers to start making scented oils. I believe the model car / airplane guys have scented oils. Pine scent comes to mind, that would be cool. That might even keep the Eco Terrorist from nosing us out. Ipone had/has a strawberry scented oil but I just couldn't ever smell any strawberry in that smoke.

As for the health aspect, I suspect I'll die of something much worse than the occasional two stroke inhilation.

Eventually the electric trials bike will take over and all the smells and sounds of a good old fashion trials event will be gone forever.

Ipone and Rock Oil make strawberry scented 100% synthetic 2-stroke oil. Tried a bottle of the Ipone as a bit of joke a couple years ago when a certain parts guy was trying to get rid of it. Smelled just like strawberries and burned clean, as good a Mobil1 2T. Had a measuring resevoir on the bottle that was slick.

Post #: 7

RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 11/1/2008 1:40:42 AM

blackduc98

Posts: 243
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: MA - Boston area
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It's not the smell of oil I worry about, it's the unburned (and burned) leaded race gasoline. Some people insist that brand XYZ of oil burns clean, but I tink it is well known that the major contributing factor to 2-stroke smoke is not quantity and/or type of oil, but rather it is excessively rich carb jetting. But no matter what you do with jetting, the inherent nature of 2-stroke exhaust port scavenging causes misfiring to occur at low rpm. When that happens, your bike is belching unburned fuel out the exhaust pipe, and right into the face of the guy behind you.

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RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 11/1/2008 12:03:58 PM

motohed

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From: ASHAWAY ,RI
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OK , how many are using leaded fuel I run C12 VP and SUNOCO ultra 50/50 no lead . I agree with the smoke issue to a point ,but leaded gas ? I think if we get a backup in a section say 3 or more maybe . I think educating when to clean exhaust and repacking would be more prudent ,it also makes the bikes much quieter .

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RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 11/1/2008 12:16:37 PM

blackduc98

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Motohed, you ARE running leaded gas. Read the label on your C12 container. It says: WARNING, contains TETRAETHYL LEAD.

Cleaning your silencer won't help a bit. Let me ask you this: would you want to stick your nose into the tailpipe of your car while the engine is running? No? Keep in mind that your car is a 4-stroke with a catalytic converter running unleaded fuel, so the exhaust from your car is much cleaner than from your trials bike.

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Post #: 10

RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 11/1/2008 3:49:46 PM

Expert007

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From: A place far, far away from here.
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I think the only time the smoke is bad is when I hammer down 3 miles of loop like I'm in an Enduro and when I get to the section, my bike is smoking worse than a '48 Ford flathead that burns more oil than gas and is climbing a big hill. And, my hot bike smokes just as much when I shut it off, so a shut down rule really wouldn't help. Again, it seems like we're trying to complicate a very fun and simple sport. If the smoke is too much in line, get off your bike and stand away from the exhaust, that's what I do!
And, more importantly, who would enforce such a rule? Not me, and not the checker! These things need a lot of consideration of all the angles.
Keep it simple; just go out and ride and have FUN!
If the exhaust is really bothering you, ask the rider ahead to shut off his bike. This a fun sport with very nice people, I can't imagine anyone not shutting down if asked.
The annual meeting always has too much to deal with that takes too long with excessive debating. Let's not add such trivial details to the agenda. It would benifit us all if we focused on important issuses like laws aimed at shutting down all our riding areas. We've lost 5 places in the past 10 years, we need to consider where we'll be riding in the next 10 years.
Jareth
:o)

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RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 11/1/2008 4:04:04 PM

mit gas gas

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Yup, what he said!

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RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 11/1/2008 6:52:28 PM

motohed

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blackduc98

Motohed, you ARE running leaded gas. Read the label on your C12 container. It says: WARNING, contains TETRAETHYL LEAD.

Cleaning your silencer won't help a bit. Let me ask you this: would you want to stick your nose into the tailpipe of your car while the engine is running? No? Keep in mind that your car is a 4-stroke with a catalytic converter running unleaded fuel, so the exhaust from your car is much cleaner than from your trials bike.

Thats why my brain cells are fried , sniffing that 2 stroke is addictive . LOL
I have too agree with Jareth on the enforcement though . I would have no problem either way. I do think that there will be more serious matter discussed at the meeting . OH and sorry for not reading past where it says unleaded on the VP container !

< Message edited by motohed -- 11/2/2008 7:45:29 PM >

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Scott W Thompson
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lets play in the mud,rocks, roots or maybe balance on a log it's all good !
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RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 11/1/2008 11:49:16 PM

blackduc98

Posts: 243
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From: MA - Boston area
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Jareth, I wish your suggestion of "get off your bike and stand farther away from exhaust" would work, but it doesn't. If you are not in line astride your bike, then people assume you left your bike because you are walking the section, so they just bypass your bike.

As for enforcement, I don't think it is necessary. Like you said, it's a bunch of nice people, so I think it would be enough for TM to remind people at the riders meeting about shutting down if there is a line behind them.

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RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 11/2/2008 4:49:52 AM

Fabian

Posts: 480
Joined: 6/1/2002
From: North Haven ct
Status: online

To Blackduc98...I think it's a good idea!

To Matt... Where can I get some of that stuff?

To Expert007... Your health is important, you should back this proposal, probably THE most important.

< Message edited by Fabian -- 11/2/2008 4:52:53 AM >

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RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 11/2/2008 7:50:53 AM

MattR

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I don't know Fabian. It was on the shelf at Advantage a few years ago, which is gone. It comes up in sled forum posts so maybe a sled shop?

Rock oil advertised in Dirt Rider and Trail Rider I think, but I have never seen it.

Post #: 16

RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 11/2/2008 7:20:02 PM

motohed

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From: ASHAWAY ,RI
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I am thinking this would be a good test for the Gas Mask , or riding faster than the smoking 2 stroke ! LOL Seriously I think we could ask at the riders meeting to shut down as a courtesy ,but as a rule I think it's a stretch . I would like to see disqualifications for coarse cutting , and other unsportsmanlike actions , before adding this too the rules .

< Message edited by motohed -- 11/2/2008 7:43:09 PM >

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Scott W Thompson
life time netra member
life time ama member
life time blue ribbon coalition
RIOHVA member
neta member
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lets play in the mud,rocks, roots or maybe balance on a log it's all good !
ride it like you stole it !

Post #: 17

RE: idling engines - another proposal for annual meeting - 11/3/2008 12:24:04 PM

blackduc98

Posts: 243
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: MA - Boston area
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I would be OK with TM doing this as a simple courtesy reminder at each riders meeting, rather than a rigid rule.

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Post #: 18