RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg

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RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/2/2008 7:54:09 PM

laser1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: likebikes

Couple of comments:

- I don't understand the "C" split. If you set up a Novice section, and then look for places to put in an easier "C" split, why not make that the "B" split? If it's too easy for the "B" riders, then ride the "A" line.

To me its along the same logic as why it makes sense to have 3 different lines of technical difficulty for a smaller group of riders (Champ, Exp, Advanced, Sr Adv). If you scaled by rider count, you would accordingly have have 4 lines for the larger (Sr A, Int, Sr B, Novice and Jr) grouping. So 3 doesnt seem like such a stretch to me. Can it be done with two - sure. Would it be better with 3? I think so.

Post #: 21

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/2/2008 9:03:55 PM

NETA160

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Joined: 12/20/2006
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John,
The Youth class is NOT prohibited by law at Exeter. Trials bikes with trials tires are required, meaning trail bikes, motocross bikes, etc. with KNOBBY tires are prohibited.

GG50s, Beta 50s, Osets, etc. that are trials bikes with trials tires are legally acceptable.

Last year at the annual meeting, I specifically redefined Youth A and Youth B as follows, so there would be an opportunity to offer "Youth A" classes at Exeter, if the Club/TM was open to offering.

Youth A = Trials bikes with trials tires
Youth B = Any type of bike and tire

Simply said, if the RITC wants to offer Youth A, they could legally. Whether the club "wants" to is another story.

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Post #: 22

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/2/2008 10:40:22 PM

motofire

Posts: 910
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: online

Yup Tim I am aware of that and I remember you making that motion clearly. I was sepcifically speaking of the riders with non compliant bikes.

Post #: 23

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/3/2008 10:52:10 AM

STEVEC

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Tom's "C" line in Novice sections makes a lot of sense to me. It seems that most people's objections might be that it complicates things for the TM but I don't think so. From what I could see, "C" splits were only a way around something that a beginning rider might have trouble with: don't like that hill - send them around it, that hit looks intimidating - send them around it etc... In most cases it just meant moving a ribbon out to a flat area and putting up a split sign. I can't think of many novice sections where this would be hard to do. Finding easy routes around something seems like a lot less work than separate sections (and possibly loops) if Juniors ran "C" lines.

A "C" split might not be necessary in every Novice section. We could take a page from the NATC book and have a sign at the start of a section telling "C" riders to ride the "B" line (if there was no "C" line).

I'm not sure it's necessary in Expert sections though.

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RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/3/2008 7:18:42 PM

TonyC

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There is already a "C" line in the expert sections.

Couple years back, someone mentioned having intermediates do a "C" split in the expert sections. I think it was to alleviate the congestion in the novice sections. Not sure if anyone has heard from or seen that guy since!! If bmac thinks the girls find the guys comical on this forum, I can only imagine what they think seeing the behavior that goes on at the meeting. :)

Post #: 25

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/6/2008 11:43:43 AM

bmac

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From: Warwick, R.I.
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OK! Can we back up a little?
It was said, riders were running out of time as it is. The loop and sections were to hard.
OH! BTW we have a " C " line, T/M can put the beginners in the Nov. sections along with the Juniors, IF they want.
IMO! There has been some though here, which is good. BUT, I haven't heard how the Beginners are going to handle the loops. I had trouble with some trails found myself sideways a few times. Every one is thinking of the sections. If a beginner or what ever you want to call them, can't do the trail, what do you think will happen. Hopefully they don't get hurt.
It is always easy to come up with rules, change this or that. IMO none of you are looking at the whole picture.

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/6/2008 12:19:43 PM >

Post #: 26

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/6/2008 12:29:15 PM

tbutland

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Bill, some thought we should keep the threads to a single problem at a time, but just for clarification I'm thinking given we put in a C line, the loop should be ridable by that level of rider. I was trying to simplify things by having riders sign up to ride by skill level, vs necessarily by label. We are seeing alittle more gap in the skill level, then I remember in the past. I agree we have the option to put in a C line, which I did in several places in Vermont, but at this stage only juniors and beginners are designated to ride them. We are not seeing alot of beginners riding the Novice sections, not sure but its most likely that the riders signing up for beginner are mostly youths..Back to the loop ?, I Realize the loop in Vermont, had some really tough spots especially given the weather and I promise to work on that.

Post #: 27

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/6/2008 12:30:19 PM

motofire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bmac

IMO! There has been some though here, which is good. BUT, I haven't heard how the Beginners are going to handle the loops. I had trouble with some trails found myself sideways a few times. Every one is thinking of the sections. If a beginner or what ever you want to call them, can't do the trail, what do you think will happen. Hopefully they don't get hurt.
It is always easy to come up with rules, change this or that. IMO none of you are looking at the whole picture.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. You cant expect the clubs to cater to everyone...thats impossible... but you have to handle the means. IMO if someone can't ride the loop they shouldnt be out there in the 1st place. Also I have yet to see an impassable loop. Yeah some were tough but none dangerous.

< Message edited by motofire -- 10/6/2008 2:20:28 PM >

Post #: 28

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/6/2008 1:15:10 PM

bmac

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From: Warwick, R.I.
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Tony
the c line you are talking about for the INT, in the EX class is a one time shot for this year. Pete from CATRA wanted to try it. It will happen Saturday this week end in NY.

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/6/2008 1:18:58 PM >

Post #: 29

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/6/2008 1:21:45 PM

bmac

Posts: 289
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From: Warwick, R.I.
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So Tom what is it you don't want me to talk about???
I looked back at the posts and there all over the place. ???
I am missing some thing.

Post #: 30

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/6/2008 1:32:59 PM

motofire

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Joined: 8/16/2002
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Read this...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tbutland

Having said that, lets move to the Novice sections. My proposal is based on the fact, I think we have a wider range of skills, across all ages, riding these sections then the TM's can easily make both safe, challenging and FUN for all. Consistent with the AMA & NATC, ( AA,A,B,etc.) I'm suggesting we design the sections by skill level and we need to add a C level to accommodate the range of skills we have attending our events. I think adding a C line is really not alot of work and could benefit the growth, as well as help sustain the attendance at our events. There has been some suggestions to make the C line a non-championship line, which might work, but I'm not sure just yet about that. Really there is no harm, no foul, if no one signs up to ride the C line no harm is done. I'm thinking we need to try something alittle differn't, nothing ventured nothing gained and this would be a simple thing to try. I guess my rule removal would have to be take out the Beginner & its separate sections & loop(fair amount of work) and be consistent with the skill level idea and carry it over to the youth..Have an A,B,C line there as well..To really churn the pot, we could have a C line in the expert sections as well, as we all know we have some riders who need to be challenged more, to become competative at the national/world level. As we push the limits in these sections, the skill gap gets wider there as well..

Post #: 31

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/6/2008 3:13:40 PM

bmac

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Tom, You say no harm no foul if no one rides the c line. ? $$ spent for awards.
Also you want to make 3 more classes, Senior C , Novice C and EX -C So thats 15 more awards.
I am not sure what this is going to help, other than the clubs spending more $$. I think you had some awards left after your event.
You say the juniors can ride the B line. IMO if they do that, they are not juniors. Or was that going to be another class?
AM I getting on track with this blog now?

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/6/2008 3:14:51 PM >

Post #: 32

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/6/2008 4:09:13 PM

motofire

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Joined: 8/16/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bmac

Tom, You say no harm no foul if no one rides the c line. ? $$ spent for awards.
Also you want to make 3 more classes, Senior C , Novice C and EX -C So thats 15 more awards.
I am not sure what this is going to help, other than the clubs spending more $$. I think you had some awards left after your event.
You say the juniors can ride the B line. IMO if they do that, they are not juniors. Or was that going to be another class?
AM I getting on track with this blog now?

There really is no need to spend any more money than the cost of some ribbon a split markers...and still achieve the goal of bridging the gap. Keep it simple....

Make the C split line open to any rider of any age....and make it non championship with no trophies. Make it an exhibition type of class. The thing is trials masters would have to put them in and use the splits at the right place.

IMO the intent of the C line is for....

Riders who are too good for begginer yet not good enough for the C line.
Riders that can handle the main loop.
Riders who are new to Trials and want to ride with some experienced riders their own age and see how a loop is ridden and a section is walked
Their could also be a point where an older rider just wants to get out there and continue to ride...or maybe a rider rehabbing after and injury.

If only a few riders use the C line all year I think it would be worth it for them. I could also see a few of the father and son teams taking advantage of this.

< Message edited by motofire -- 10/6/2008 4:25:37 PM >

Post #: 33

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/6/2008 6:04:53 PM

tbutland

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Bill, I'm glad to see you can bring a sense of humor to these ramblings..Feel free to talk about anything you'd like..I was just passing along a comment made by the group at some point along the line..You are right that we always seem to have some awards left over at the end of the trial, as all classes don't have enough riders for all the placings..I'm thinking along the same lines as john, lets keep it simple and not have the C line as a championship class and maybe only some basic finisher awards or something like that.. I'm flexible on the awards thing, as you are right, some of the clubs(vt for one) struggle with the $$. I'm just trying to keep as many folks engaged as possible and having a good time. Its a tough call on the Juniors, not sure what to do with this, except to encourgage all riders regardless of age to ride the skill line they are capable of..

Post #: 34

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/6/2008 8:54:44 PM

motohed

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I was just wondering when and where the annual NETA meeting will be held this year !

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Post #: 35

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 9:34:39 AM

motofire

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http://www.newenglandtrials.org/

Its listed in the upcoming events.

Post #: 36

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 10:09:33 AM

bmac

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John with the post you wanted me to read, no where in there did it say any thing about awards.
IT said a non championship class. The yutes get ribbons, its not a point class.
Tom we already have a " C " line in EX this is what the CHAMPS ride. Or would there be a " D " line

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/7/2008 10:13:22 AM >

Post #: 37

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 10:39:46 AM

bmac

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IMO if you want to make a change, you have to tell the whole story up front.
EXAMPLE
Put the beginners in Novice sections with a C split around the harder stuff. They will ride 3 loops. They will ride the same loop with splits around the harder parts of the loop.
This will not be a Championship class, but there will be finesher awards.

I think this way it takes a lot of ?????s out of this blog.
Also I think every thing pertaing to a change needs to be talked about in the same blog!!!

Post #: 38

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 10:52:20 AM

bmac

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From: Warwick, R.I.
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John what do you mean by this?
" IMO the intent of the C line is for....
Riders who are too good for Beginner yet not good enough for the C line. "
I though the " C " line was going to be the easiest line in Novice so Beginners could ride it. ??

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/7/2008 10:54:55 AM >

Post #: 39

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 11:24:09 AM

bmac

Posts: 289
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From: Warwick, R.I.
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Change::
III The trials course--- Letter I
Rule reads now:: Riders may walk the section at the discretion of the checker.
After the event has started, no changes may be made in any section.
TO read:
Riders may walk the section at the discretion of the checker.
NO changes may be made to any section BEFORE or DURING the event, Except by the Trials Master
Reason: I saw and still do see people, making big change to sections, before the event starts, while they are viewing the loop.
Bringing logs 3 feet long into the section to put in front of a log 5" round log so his son could get over it. One Farther took a foot of a bank down for his son.
IMO if you have to do that, the kid is not ready for that class. But we know the MOMS & POPS push the kids to hard some times. Maybe this is why we loose the young riders.

IF YOU have a concern about a section, you should go to the T/M.

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/16/2008 1:45:12 PM >

Post #: 40