RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg

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RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 11:51:08 AM

tbutland

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Joined: 1/25/2008
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Bill, you are right..I will go back and read the rule book pertaining to the area I propose to change and hopefully word it clearly. I started this blog to get some discussion going and some ideas before I came up with the exact wording, but maybe its time. stay tuned..

Post #: 41

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 12:01:49 PM

bmac

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From: Warwick, R.I.
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Some times the A/M gets out of hand,with every one trying to put there rule up.
I think if you want a change, it needs to be done by the PREZZ. This means you have to get it to him before the A/M.
There should be NO drinking, before or during the Meeting. IMO
WE also need a MASTER AT ARMS.

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/7/2008 12:24:27 PM >

Post #: 42

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 12:21:33 PM

bmac

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Warwick, R.I.
Status: offline

AWARDS::
I think we should STOP giving big awards at the events. If you are riding for year end points, that is the award that means the most. The YUTES get a ribbon, why can't we give those.
1st Blue
2nd Red
3rd Yellow
4th Green
5th Brown
The ribbons cost very little, BUT the best part is there is no dates on them, they can be used the next event.
Only the to ten will get the BIG award at the A/B anyway.
Also with the low coast, you could give more at the event if you have a lot of Novice show up. They come in all colors

Tom, if we use ribbons you can have all the classes you want.

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/7/2008 12:27:16 PM >

Post #: 43

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 1:28:18 PM

tbutland

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Joined: 1/25/2008
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Bill, the awards is definitely an area we should look at. I like your idea about the ribbons, but if folks want trophies we could change the number of suggested for each class. As you know, we limited the number of trophies to the top 3 and I believe Maine did as well. Maybe you could bring that change forward?

Back to my proposal for a c line. Here is the area of the rules and my proposal.

Section II. Competition Classes
A, B, C, E, F, Unchanged
G. Sr. Advanced, note! this is just a re-org to keep all the expert classes together
Novice Section Area:
H. Intermediate(could be renamed Novice A?)
I. Sr A
J. Novice B
K. Sr B
L. Vintage
M. Novice C
N. Sr C
O. Junior - rides "C" line
P. Woman - rides "C" line

Post #: 44

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 1:30:04 PM

tbutland

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Sorry I left D out of the unchanged group...a senior moment I guess..

Post #: 45

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 2:17:51 PM

bmac

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From: Warwick, R.I.
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Tom I see you want to bring the Womens class back. We did away with it last year, no riders.
If we get some new Gals they can ride Beginner or Novice.
Now that I think of it there is nothing to say you can't give Ribbons. Yes, It says Recommended awards to be given at each event.

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/7/2008 2:27:18 PM >

Post #: 46

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 2:35:17 PM

bmac

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Warwick, R.I.
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Tom on my 2 Proposals, they are already into Leo.

Post #: 47

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 2:46:56 PM

motofire

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Joined: 8/16/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bmac

John what do you mean by this?
" IMO the intent of the C line is for....
Riders who are too good for Beginner yet not good enough for the C line. "
I though the " C " line was going to be the easiest line in Novice so Beginners could ride it. ??

That means I cant type...

I meant to type that it was for riders that are better than begginers but not good enough for the B line.

Post #: 48

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 5:02:30 PM

tbutland

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Bill, what did I miss, what are your two proposals? I have spoken to Leo about my proposal, do I need to submit it in writing to the NETA board before the meeting? Oh about the womens class, just reading the 2008 rulebook as it currently stands. The womens class is still listed, as a required class???

Post #: 49

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 5:31:11 PM

tbutland

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Here is the portion of the AMA rules book, that describes skill levels for observed trials..The 1st three categories AA, A & B refer to the Champ, Expert & Advance skill levels..This is an attempt to describe various skill levels for section consistency. According to this our Novice riders are E: skill level riders..

(4) C: A rider at this skill level is competent to negotiate steep hills
and off-camber turns, can use “unweighting” techniques to
clear logs higher than the skidplate, and can climb obstacles of
a moderate height so long as a steep drop-off does not
immediately follow. Often referred to as an “Intermediate” or
“Sportsman” or “Clubman” skill level.
(5) D: A rider at this skill level has the ability to attempt the most
basic obstacles including logs, rocky terrain, hills of moderate
difficulty, and tight turns. Most riders at this level can overcome
logs or small rock ledges by lofting the front of the bike but
cannot precisely place the front wheel. Sometimes referred to
as an “Intermediate” or “Amateur” skill level.
(6) E: A novice level rider at the entry level to the sport. Obstacles
should be small and generally capable of being ridden over
without the ability to loft the front wheel. The emphasis for
section layout for this level rider should be on basic turns,
simple hills and cambers, and control of the bike. Generally
referred to as “Novice” skill level.
(7) Youth or Beginner: In order to promote the sport to young
riders, it is desirable to have some very simple sections
available that can be ridden by beginning riders on small
wheeled bikes. Many clubs have youth sections that are on a
totally separate and easy loop from the regular trial loop.
(8) Other Classifications: Some clubs may include classes
specifically for riders of a certain minimum age, or for vintage
machines of a certain period.

Post #: 50

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 7:15:12 PM

motofire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bmac

Tom I see you want to bring the Womens class back. We did away with it last year, no riders.

I thought that was the unofficial Womens Advanced class they did away with.

< Message edited by motofire -- 10/7/2008 7:22:29 PM >

Post #: 51

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 7:25:10 PM

motofire

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Tom,

Does your motion keep the Beginners as is? Or are they to ride the C line also?

It appears to me that they remain unchanged.

Post #: 52

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 8:16:58 PM

tbutland

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Joined: 1/25/2008
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John, it was alittle suttle I guess, but I implied the beginners would ride Novice C and yes of course ride the C line..I'm trying to focus on the skill level and not get hung up on the names, though I do believe some folks are hesitant to be classified as beginners..I'm also trying to get them engaged in the main stream of the trials and not have to make a separate set of sections and loop for them..If I'm reading this problem correctly some folks are Novices to the sport, but a number have some experience, but don't have the time to hone their skills or are looking for less challenge and more safe fun..If it was a deal breaker, I have no objection to keeping a separate class called beginners

Post #: 53

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 8:33:09 PM

sherpa82

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Interesting forum, almost seems like we've done this before... Sounds like what your saying is that you want to make what is already in the rule book mandatory instead of leaving it up to the discretion of the clerk. At CATRA we have been using the C split in the novice sections for three years now. Each year we have been adding more and more and now this year all novice sections will have a C split for the junior riders and depending on the age and turnout of the beginners we may have them ride the C split in certain novice sections as well. The last two years we did incorporate the beginners line into the youth sections. (last year we had one beginner the year before none)

As for the C for intermediate class in the Expert sections, we did get approval for a one time test of this idea for the saturday event. The purpose for requesting the test was about relieving congestion in the novice sections. As this year we have observed a huge improvemnt in section layout at virtually all NETA events, it appears that the back up of riders at sections seems to have fixed itself. I can't remember waiting for more than a few minutes to ride at any event all year. This coupled with the addition of the champ line in the expert sections has caused us to rethink putting the intermediates in with the experts.
We still think its a good idea but it just got too complicated with a C split for the champs. Therefore the intermediate class for CATRA will remain as the rule stipulate for saturday.

Post #: 54

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 8:49:06 PM

tbutland

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While the C line option is in the rule book and can be utilized for the beginners, you point out an important fact, we are not seeing alot of riders signing up for beginner. I'm not sure if its a stigma thing or if adults don't want to ride with youths, etc..I'm trying in my own way to simplify things, by having riders signup to ride according to their skill level and TM's to provide a consistent level of skill splits in the sections. Its my contention that we have a broad range of skills coming to the events and if we offered a c line level of skill, riders would use it. I'm almost ready to suggest that c line is mandatory until you accumulate 30 points. I remember in the 70's it was very simple. You rode novice, until you were promoted to intermediate and then to amateur and on to expert..That was that and it was all so simple and clear..

Post #: 55

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 10:30:04 PM

motohed

Posts: 396
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From: ASHAWAY ,RI
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I have been reading these posts and have been on a trials bike very little . I have been watching the the rider designation thing with some interest and some question . The with interest part is, as to how they are laid out . Why is it that in enduro's and hare scrambles you go from C class to double A class then Pro . Now I am interested in trials and you start out in A class and move down to a C class , I am a bonified ,noob to this sport , some what crippled literally , but to dumb to give up on the sports I love . I have a silly idea , what would be the possibility of a sportsman class for new adult riders catchy name ,and looks to be unused . It could be run backwards in the C to AA class . Maybe have a C line in most novice sections with less loops so we could work on technique , with out dying or getting killed ,maybe have a skilled observer at the end of the section ,or beginning for that matter to critique are riding ability . I really would like to put an honest effort into this sport , but I have no idea as to what the rules are. I would love to ride the events,as well as participate in this discussion. I would also like to be some new blood to help out with just new idea's . I don't claim to know anything about this sport other than , It amazes me to watch you guys. I think I can learn the balance thing OK ,don't ask what a splatter is or this or that . It would be nice to have someone explain and even teach me ,or any other nooby for that matter . I know I am rambling some what , but I am sure that everyone new to trials is really thinking the same thing , just not willing to throw them selves to the wolves ,yes the wolves so to speak ! LOL . But seriously I have spent my whole life learning new things ,and have accomplished many ,and even failed a few . But I am still trying ! Ok guys pick it apart ! OK I just reread toms list of designation, sportsman is used in the context. I was refering to it as a novice adult name for class .Maybe my original thought of old and slow is a better idea , seeing I do suffer from short term memory loss ! Jesh ,give a guy a break ! Come on BMAC help me out here will ya !

< Message edited by motohed -- 10/7/2008 10:41:07 PM >

_____________________________

Scott W Thompson
life time netra member
life time ama member
life time blue ribbon coalition
RIOHVA member
neta member
hog member
lets play in the mud,rocks, roots or maybe balance on a log it's all good !
ride it like you stole it !

Post #: 56

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 10:49:21 PM

TonyC

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Joined: 1/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bmac

Tom, You say no harm no foul if no one rides the c line. ? $$ spent for awards.
Also you want to make 3 more classes, Senior C , Novice C and EX -C So thats 15 more awards.
I am not sure what this is going to help, other than the clubs spending more $$. I think you had some awards left after your event.

A win win win situation for awards is to give out t-shirts. Only to the top 3. Forget top 5, attendance is down. No selling the shirts either, they are more valuable when earned. If you have NETA's logo on the front, and NETA's schedule on the back, the sport gets much needed exposure, the rider gets an "award" that they can actually use and be proud of, and the promoter (or promoting club) gets awards for practically nothing! What more could you ask for?

Post #: 57

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 10:51:15 PM

TonyC

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Motofire, did you learn anything when investigating other clubs rules?

Post #: 58

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 10:51:19 PM

motohed

Posts: 396
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: ASHAWAY ,RI
Status: offline

I have ammo ! Is that what you mean by master at arms ! My head hurts from the one finger typing thing ,bmac LOL

quote:

ORIGINAL: bmac

Some times the A/M gets out of hand,with every one trying to put there rule up.
I think if you want a change, it needs to be done by the PREZZ. This means you have to get it to him before the A/M.
There should be NO drinking, before or during the Meeting. IMO
WE also need a MASTER AT ARMS.

See that I didn't even hit the right spot ,I meant to be . OK this is just not right ! I going to leave this one alone ! FOOT IN MOUTH

_____________________________

Scott W Thompson
life time netra member
life time ama member
life time blue ribbon coalition
RIOHVA member
neta member
hog member
lets play in the mud,rocks, roots or maybe balance on a log it's all good !
ride it like you stole it !

Post #: 59

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 11:11:08 PM

motofire

Posts: 910
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: motohed

I have been watching the the rider designation thing with some interest and some question . The with interest part is, as to how they are laid out . Why is it that in enduro's and hare scrambles you go from C class to double A class then Pro . Now I am interested in trials and you start out in A class and move down to a C class

No...Trials is the same. The C line is easier and the A line is harder.

In NETA there is no forced promotion. In fact in Senior A/B theres a lot of riders that at one time were Expert...and even a one time SSDT competitor.

Post #: 60