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RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg

 
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RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 11:21:16 PM   
motofire


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyC

Motofire, did you learn anything when investigating other clubs rules?
I did..and NETA actually has a decent rulebook. I saw 8 different rulebooks from USA and 2 from Europe. Also NATC.

A few of the rules that differ are...

  • Senior classes start at 35..one at 30.
  • Events start at 12
  • most clubs do 32 sections for all classes
  • A lot of events are self check
  • A lot of events have "Club" entries where one rider from each ability makes up a club. It sounds like a lot of fun.
  • In Europe they have a class where you cant stop.
  • A few clubs do Gate Trials and Scottish Trials.

Nothing super fancy.....
Post #: 61
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/7/2008 11:31:22 PM   
motohed


Posts: 396
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: ASHAWAY ,RI
Status: offline 		I see That after reading some of the rule book on the neta website . My bad for not exploring it first . I agree with not riding with the kids , more for there safety than my own . I have found it is very easy to grab a handful of throttle on these bikes ,with quick throttle tube ! I will be changing mine for future attempts . But still safety is my number one issue , and is the reason I would prefer not to ride with children . Most children in this sport seem to be better right off the bat then adults that have to work the next day. I think personally that a novice c line for the adult learners would do the job fine .I don't know how much extra work it would entail ,but I think it would be worth it . Maybe one less loop then the regular novice class . I do realize that theres really  only one person  in the section at a time . My concern is more about maybe hurting the children  in the loop per say. Adrenaline does funny thing at times to people especially if they are running out of time or steam to continue.

< Message edited by motohed -- 10/7/2008 11:36:15 PM >

_____________________________

Scott W Thompson
life time netra member
life time ama member
life time blue ribbon coalition
RIOHVA member
neta member
hog member
lets play in the mud,rocks, roots or maybe balance on a log it's all good !
ride it like you stole it !
Post #: 62
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/8/2008 8:45:24 AM   
STEVEC


Posts: 68
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tbutland

D: A rider at this skill level has the ability to attempt the most
basic obstacles including logs, rocky terrain, hills of moderate
difficulty, and tight turns. Most riders at this level can overcome
logs or small rock ledges by lofting the front of the bike but
cannot precisely place the front wheel. Sometimes referred to
as an “Intermediate” or “Amateur” skill level.
E: A novice level rider at the entry level to the sport. Obstacles
should be small and generally capable of being ridden over
without the ability to loft the front wheel. The emphasis for
section layout for this level rider should be on basic turns,
simple hills and cambers, and control of the bike. Generally
referred to as “Novice” skill level.



Based on the rulebook, it seems like current "Novice B" lines are set up more towards the lower end of "Intermediate" difficulty rather than "Novice". A new "Novice C" class/line could be set up to better fit the description as written. I'd be all for a new "Novice C" class, moving "Juniors" to it and reducing loops to 3 or 4 maximum - maybe based on loop difficulty.

_____________________________

Feet up!
Post #: 63
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 9:48:15 AM   
bmac

 

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Warwick, R.I.
Status: offline 		Tom, go to page 2 ( bottom ) and page 3 about 3-4 down -- Awards

IMO-- We need to stay within our rule book, a lot of rules here came from NATC, etc.
Tom now I can see where you are coming from, you are into the AMA and NATC rules. IMO like I said, we need to work from NETA rules. Tom, you have my head spining, with AA D C etc. If you do like the example I made I think every one could see what you wanted to do better, then every one could chime in. The way it is here you are doing it peace meal and you have to keep going back and forth in the posts to see what you mean. OR it could BE just me.
   I am glad some of you look up the Womems class, ( that means we are useing the book ) I though it was done with. MY MISTAKE SORRY.
   That brings me back to AWARDS. Every club had to have TWO awards for the Womem that were NOT given.      

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/9/2008 9:51:05 AM >
Post #: 64
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 10:13:29 AM   
tbutland

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		 Bill, I know when you get older, it all gets so confusing..A couple of post ago, I did put my proposal in the NETA 2008 rulebook format..Section II Competition classes, etc.. and that is what I will go forward with at the annual meeting. Someone had made mention we should have some skill level and section consistency and taking the section out of the AMA rulebook, was my attempt to show there are some words to describe our various skill levels, if someone wants to use them..I'm perfectly happy to designate a mandatory C line, which anyone can choose to ride, the object being to have a line in which the objective is to KEEP IT EASY and  FUN for riders who want to ride at that level for whatever reason.
Post #: 65
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 10:44:48 AM   
bmac

 

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Warwick, R.I.
Status: offline 		Tom I am not BBls here. You have 13 classes there, some unchanged. But HOW many loops will the others ride, like the "C" class ? Will they ride the same loop? Or will they have there own loop, will they be routed around the hard stuff?? This is stuff IMO that has to be part of the proposal up front, then every one knows what is going on. It will also save a lot of ???s at the A/M.  Again the whole story is not being told. Just my 2cnts OH how many awards will there be in each class. (new class)

Tom I am not saying to lower the awards given out. I just think we could use Ribbons.
Also the T/M can give as many awards out as they want.

Tom I just looked back at your proposal again.
IF I am not wrong again, I think this blog all started over the Beginners.
I don't see any thing about the Beginners in your new Proposal. ?? 

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/9/2008 11:29:15 AM >
Post #: 66
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 12:00:28 PM   
TonyC

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tbutland

Bill, the awards is definitely an area we should look at. I like your idea about the ribbons, but if folks want trophies we could change the number of suggested for each class. As you know, we limited the number of trophies to the top 3 and I believe Maine did as well. Maybe you could bring that change forward?

Back to my proposal for a c line. Here is the area of the rules and my proposal.

Section II. Competition Classes
A, B, C, E, F, Unchanged
G. Sr. Advanced, note! this is just a re-org to keep all the expert classes together
Novice Section Area:
H. Intermediate(could be renamed Novice A?)
I.  Sr A
J. Novice B
K. Sr B
L. Vintage
M. Novice C
N. Sr C
O. Junior - rides "C" line
P. Woman - rides "C" line



I think I screwed up posting this earlier....
A win win win situation for awards is to give out t-shirts. Only to the top 3. Forget top 5, attendance is down. No selling the shirts either, they are more valuable when earned. If you have NETA's logo on the front, and NETA's schedule on the back,  the sport gets much needed exposure, the rider gets an "award" that they can actually use and be proud of, and the promoter (or promoting club) gets awards for practically free! Or, even make money on them. What more could you ask for?
Post #: 67
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 2:01:54 PM   
tbutland

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		Bill, you are right, I took out the beginner class and in my mind rolled it into Novice C..what this says to me is anyone can ride Novice C. I would suggest that Novice C and Senior C should ride 4 loops. I'm thinking Junior & Women ride the C line and do 3 loops. What got me started on this thread, was the idea that we have a broad range of skills riding in the Novice sections and a few folks have been feeling like we are pushing the lower end of the skill range too hard in our current sections and loops. Everything you read or hear about, says the Novice sections should be VERY EASY and I feel, looking at our B line in the Novice sections, overall, I would not describe them as EASY. A way around this is to just do it, Put in a very easy line that people can choose to ride and just have fun, ergo the C line. I put in the Senior C class, so some of the elder statesmen can continue to ride, with minimum risk of injury and/or being too tired to finish a day of FUN..As to the awards, I will also add / remove the classes to that section to be consistent with my proposal. Oh and yes lets talk about the loop, I would hope the the TM's would make the loop easy enough for the C level riders. I realize in some cases, this can be very difficult based on the terrain the TM has to work with. An answer to this may be a by-pass for C riders around some of the more difficult terrain. I struggled alot with this in the Vt event and as you know.
Post #: 68
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 5:23:05 PM   
bmac

 

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Warwick, R.I.
Status: offline 		Would like to add this to the rules.
Add to rule III Trials corse, Letter D. it would be #3.
No person shall Ride any section more then ONE TIME per loop. Except for rule, IV Scoring - Letter L.

Reason: In VT there was a guy and his Girl riding sections 2 and 3 times in a row. I told him he can't do that, but he told me it was ok because he wasn't riding for points.

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/9/2008 5:27:32 PM >
Post #: 69
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 5:37:56 PM   
tbutland

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		Bill, I'm ok with that for clarification. It seems like it should be understood from N. - When a rider has completed his rides, he shall not continue to ride in any section until after the checker has completed scoring all other riders. or O. - There shall be neither event workers nor spectators riding the sections while the event is in progress..This one I witnessed while I was working the Brookline event. I know everyone doesn't read the rules and probably especially true of a new or one day rider at the event. Maybe a few KEY rules could be covered at the Riders meeting by the TM??
Post #: 70
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 6:02:57 PM   
bmac

 

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Warwick, R.I.
Status: offline 		Tom I think the letter N pertains to pepole finishing early and going out and riding the section. For me you could read into that, Does it mean all the people waiting in line then. This happens a lot people finish and they come to the Novice section and want to ride it. " Wyane Galvin " I was trying to make it clear that you can only ride a section one time per loop. After the event is over, go for it.
Letter O pertains to the worker and spectators.
The two I am talking about were riders, they were in the exh class.
Tom spectators are not allowed to have a bike on the loop. That I know of.

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/9/2008 6:10:54 PM >
Post #: 71
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 6:30:56 PM   
bmac

 

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Warwick, R.I.
Status: offline 		NEW CLASS::     This is SPARKED by MOTOHED

Title:  OLD and SLOW
        Can ride any where in the section, any split. Can start dead engine while footing. May pull bike backwards when needed. Will ride at least 2 loops, more if you want. Can sit on a rock to rest in the section. Can ask for help when stuck. Will ride all short cut trails. Have to ride at least 4 sections per loop.
points:
start dead engine 1 point
Pull backs 1 point
Sitting on rock: will be served a cold drink
Help when stuck : 1point
Awards to 5th place.
Age 60 and older.
What kind of awards will be up to them.

It is ok to have training wheels: Per MOTOHED 

< Message edited by bmac -- 10/17/2008 2:36:56 PM >
Post #: 72
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 6:37:39 PM   
tbutland

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		Hmmmm!! is this a sign we have run this subject into the ground? A glass of red wine would be nice
Post #: 73
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 6:42:00 PM   
motohed


Posts: 396
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: ASHAWAY ,RI
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bmac

NEW CLASS::     This is SPARKED by MOTOHED

Title:  OLD and SLOW
         Can ride any where in the section, any split. Can start dead engine while footing. My pull bike backwards when needed. Will ride at least 2 loops, more if you want. Can sit on a rock to rest in the section. Can ask for help when stuck. Will ride all short cut trails. Have to ride at least 4 sections per loop.
points:
start dead engine 1 point
Pull backs 1 point
Sitting on rock: will be served a cold drink
Help when stuck : 1point
Awards to 5th place.
Age 60 and older.
What kind of awards will be up to them.
  Since it was my idea . I want dibs at age 49. I figure being run over by a truck has got to take  at least 15 year off my life . Don't forget they have to start the bike for us too ,if we can't . Training wheels ,don't forget training wheels .

_____________________________

Scott W Thompson
life time netra member
life time ama member
life time blue ribbon coalition
RIOHVA member
neta member
hog member
lets play in the mud,rocks, roots or maybe balance on a log it's all good !
ride it like you stole it !
Post #: 74
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 9:10:04 PM   
motohed


Posts: 396
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: ASHAWAY ,RI
Status: offline 		Tom
I really think your idea for a c line section or senior c line , with 3 or 4 loops would be a good answer . I know my quote from bmac seems funny , but I think that an adult alternative section is needed to separate the adults from the children , for safety . I think you have come up with a valid solution , with a novice C line . I hope to be able to come to the annual meeting to add some suggestions from someone that is very new to the sport. It would also be huge , if someone with experience were to hold an introductory riding class .I see you have one posted for  novice and advanced riders with experience . How about a group that has little to no experience .

_____________________________

Scott W Thompson
life time netra member
life time ama member
life time blue ribbon coalition
RIOHVA member
neta member
hog member
lets play in the mud,rocks, roots or maybe balance on a log it's all good !
ride it like you stole it !
Post #: 75
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/9/2008 10:02:40 PM   
tbutland

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		I believe Tim Thorpe is offering the trials school for Novice & Advanced riders. It would be great to have an introductory class, I hope someone reading this forum could volunteer to do this. We have a couple of folks in the Green Mountain Plonkers who would be great at this, but Vermont is so far from everone. I would think Meriden would be a great place. I'm planning on attending the annual meeting and I will bring this up for discussion.
Post #: 76
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/10/2008 7:56:48 AM   
STEVEC


Posts: 68
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline 		Tom,

I think your proposal is a good one. You might consider writing it up and bringing hand-outs to the meeting as others have done. It helps to have something to look over plus people who haven't been on the forum will get a clear understanding of what you have in mind.

_____________________________

Feet up!
Post #: 77
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/10/2008 8:17:12 AM   
tbutland

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		Steve, thats a great idea. Thanks for the input. Hopefully I'll see you at the CATRA event this weekend.
Post #: 78
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/10/2008 9:23:22 AM   
bmac

 

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Warwick, R.I.
Status: offline 		MOTOHED:
               49 it is.
Going to NY.  La-ter!!
Post #: 79
RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/10/2008 9:32:08 AM   
TonyC

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: offline 		Tim's class will help even the newest of riders. Every class I've attended, even Ryan Youngs advanced class had the entire morning devoted to the very BASICS. I'm sure Tim will do the same?

Also, and I'm suprised no one has commented on the way the 3D club handles their events. One thing they do very differently is take the ENTIRE group together throught the first loop. They do this so that there is someone there to explain the section or answer any questions that may arise. How many times has someone had a question and it was answered by the checker only to find out the TM (or the rule book) had a different interpretation? Even if this is done only with the "C" line or new riders, this would answer alot of questions and be extremely helpful.
Post #: 80
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