RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Dirt Bikes General] >> Observed Trials >> RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/11/2008 11:14:58 AM

motohed

Posts: 396
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: ASHAWAY ,RI
Status: offline

bmac
I won't being making to NY ,as much as I would like too . My mother inlaw has been in Yale New haven hospital with an aneurysm ,She has had brain surgery twice in the last week . I attended are event to work, and picked up my new trials bike from Mike Leonard . So I won't be to far away from home ,till we get her in better condition.

_____________________________

Scott W Thompson
life time netra member
life time ama member
life time blue ribbon coalition
RIOHVA member
neta member
hog member
lets play in the mud,rocks, roots or maybe balance on a log it's all good !
ride it like you stole it !

Post #: 81

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/12/2008 5:14:05 PM

Expert007

Posts: 377
Joined: 12/31/2006
From: A place far, far away from here.
Status: offline

AD ASTRA PER ASPERA
Keep your feet off the ground and keep reaching for the stars!
EastCoastHoppers:
http://eastcoasthoppers.com/

Post #: 82

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/12/2008 6:36:52 PM

motofire

Posts: 910
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline

At CATRA this weekend the Beginners rode the C line. I heard nothing but good things. All sections had a c split and seemed to work great. I talked with 2 father & son teams and they loved it. Both were able to compete together. The only problem they ran into was time and a few penalty points because they rode together. Still they said it was well worth it.

Post #: 83

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/12/2008 6:57:52 PM

jmurray

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/31/2006
From: Rochester NH
Status: offline

So is the thought to have beginners ride the regular loop? if thats the thinking you must have never ridden with a real beginner!

Post #: 84

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/12/2008 7:48:43 PM

laser1

Posts: 127
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline

IMO the C-Line should be for the rookie/rank novice - not a true beginner as the loop difficulty will most likely be the limiting factor. That way the B-line can be setup to be challenging to the AVERAGE B rider, and not have to account for the one or two rookies that may get hurt on even very basic obstacles. This would help reduce the large technical gap between A and B.

Post #: 85

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/12/2008 9:28:02 PM

motofire

Posts: 910
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline

This is true..The event this weekend had an easy loop. A place like Exeter or Maine would be tough on begginers.

Post #: 86

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/13/2008 7:42:24 AM

NETA160

Posts: 37
Joined: 12/20/2006
Status: offline

As a side note, at CATRA over the weekend I saw 1 or more kids on the loop (not sure if 50 or 80cc bikes), and Dad was pushing the bike up the muddy hills. For me it was nothing, just cruised up the hill but for Junior it appeared to be a serious challenge. Not to mention the risk to Junior and/or someone like me, who was under time pressure and flying at times on the trail.

_____________________________

Kind Regards,
Tim
NETA160@hotmail.com

Post #: 87

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/13/2008 8:22:34 AM

tbutland

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline

ORIGINAL: tbutland
I've been inserting the idea of having the trials masters add a C line to their sections in a couple of different threads..so I thought I would start a thread of changes that could be proposed at the annual neta meeting. The first topic I'd like to get some feed back on, is the incorporation of a C level of skill and the appropriate splits added to the sections by the trials masters. As a first thought, folks could decide at the start of the year, what level they would like to ride, ( A, B, C) so we could have Senior B, Senior C and Novice B, Novice C. I think it would accomplish a couple of things: 1) New riders, mature riders with little time for practice, riders who want to introduce folks to the sport would have a level to try, that would focus on introductory level skills and enjoyment with little danger or pressure. Already have this, it's called NOVICE class. 2) We would be able to ramp up the B & A levels to appropriately challenge those who wanted it and were looking to be in a more competative environment. This would be where a rider moves up to Intermediate or Advanced class. I would recommend that the C line ride 4 loops. Last time I looked, that was already in the rulebook. As I have mentioned before, I put several C lines in our sections in Vermont, for the Juniors, but found the Juniors currently riding our NETA events easily could ride the B or even maybe the A line.
Seems like you're trying to make unnecessary changes. Let's try to keep it simple. If the Novice is too hard, it needs to be made easier. It is just that simple!
Jareth
:o)

Hi Jareth, certainly some good thoughts and it would be nice if we could keep it as simple as possible. I remember when you rode novice, if you earned enough points and/or took a 1st place or 2, then you were automatically promoted to Intermediate. This was pretty simple and straight forward. What I'm trying to accomplish is to accomodate the dynamics we are seeing in our sport today. At any given event the skill gap is quite wide and folks are getting discouraged when they can't manage the sections or the loop. I am trying to simplify to some degree by having the TM's add in a C "mandatory easy" line. We could have a long discussion on if/why the Novice sections have become on average too hard. It is my thought that one of the reasons is the challenge for the TM's to keep the sections FUN for all, given the widening skill gap. This gives the TM a tool to use to provide more riders with lines they can have FUN with. I realize this doesn't address riders who have virtually no off road riding experience whats so ever, and maybe that area could be addressed at some point as well. We do have our youth program, which folks seem quite happy with, but an adult equivalent doesn't exist. I have & I know you have been willing to work with some adults who just want to learn some basics and develop the skills, but aren't yet ready for the Novice sections or loop trail as we know them today. I'd be open to that type of discussion, but for now we do have a number of riders who would be capable and have more FUN riding a C line..I think you touched on this yourself to some degree when you answered the ? in the "is 16 too many events" discussion. I agree the dynamics of life today is not everyone can make every event, but given a wider choice of events they could make a good number of them, so potentially with MORE events the total number of riders for the year could grow. In Vermont, we are working with the local Enduro clubs and have generated some interest in some of their riders to ride some trials events as well and they will bring their families and friends as well. So in net we love the sport of trials and we need to make some adjustments to accomodate the dynamics of the riders we are seeing today. Whew!

Post #: 88

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/13/2008 8:50:18 AM

tbutland

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline

Hi Tim, I also saw those couple of Dad's helping their son's in a few spots. I stopped and talked to them and they were having the time of their lives, I haven't seen smiles that big in quite awhile. I agree that if we got to the point of having a large number of riders doing that, it could potentially be a safety problem and we might have to address it in some way, but I personally would love to have that problem to solve, versus having folks and families turn away from trials. I got into trials because it was a family activity, and even though my kids have grown and moved on, they still remember those days as great times. Thank you for staying involved and sharing your observations and being so willing to help riders and new TM's develop their skills your experience and thoughts are much appreciated.

Post #: 89

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/13/2008 2:23:19 PM

likebikes

Posts: 14
Joined: 9/22/2008
Status: offline

Take the CATRA "C" splits - cross em out and make em "B" splits. Loop was as tough as any... no easier or harder than Exeter or Maine. (muddy hills were more of a stopper than anything)
Green Beginners would not be up to the task riding that loop!
Champ, Expert A, Advanced, Int A lines were spot on.
I agree with Jareth, the Novice "B" line is and should be the easiest line...
I watch both of the kids riding yesterday. They have the skills and experience - They are "Novice" riders.

Post #: 90

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/13/2008 4:30:01 PM

tbutland

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline

Dave, I think we are mostly on the same page, Novice sections should be VERY EASY..So if we take the CATRA event as the example and for argument sake agree that the C line was the right skill level for Novice. What I'm understanding you to say relative to the CATRA event would be take out the B-line they had and mark the C-line as the B-line and the Novice sections would have been right on. You also mentioned that you felt the INT LINE A_LINE was spot on. I guess the discussion then would be is there a need for a skill level - LINE that bridges from Novice to Intermediate. My observation of the Intermediate line compared to the C line at CATRA, was a pretty big skill jump. I'm thinking we would have to scale back the A-line to some degree in that case? I guess my thought process was the simpler idea was just to add the mandatory C-line and not have to make skill adjustments across the other lines and take away the argument that there wasn't an easy line for the Novices to ride. I agree that RAW Beginners, no off rode riding experience, should probably not ride Novice and that we may have to address that issue for adults in some other way. I'm pretty sure the RAW Beginner adults, don't want to ride with the YOUTHS..I've heard some adults asking for a basic introduction to off road riding class, maybe that would be a start.

Post #: 91

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/13/2008 5:43:03 PM

laser1

Posts: 127
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: likebikes

Take the CATRA "C" splits - cross em out and make em "B" splits. Loop was as tough as any... no easier or harder than Exeter or Maine. (muddy hills were more of a stopper than anything)
Green Beginners would not be up to the task riding that loop!
Champ, Expert A, Advanced, Int A lines were spot on.
I agree with Jareth, the Novice "B" line is and should be the easiest line...
I watch both of the kids riding yesterday. They have the skills and experience - They are "Novice" riders.

So you are now an advocate for making the B-Line easier? your previous statements when you and Dan were "discussing" it, seemed to be the other way around. For the record, I always like your B-Section challenge level, but in particular, Dan took exception with them and the long loop. I think thats how this whole discussion got started and what lead to the C-Line proposal.

HOWEVER - If you make the B-line easier, you would make an even larger gap between B and A, as well as make it boring for the AVERAGE B rider. I dont think its great policy to base a LARGE class like Sr B on the beginner rider who may show up or not. I dont think the majority of the class can switch to A either, so that argument makes absolutely no sense to me.

The argument for the C-Line does not have anything to do with the current 2 Jrs in the class AND its not about making the B-Line easier - Its about giving a large group of diverse riders more choice to challenge themselves while not putting anyone at risk. It SHOULD help riders transition to A. If your gate trials idea does the same thing in an easier manner - great.

Trebor

Post #: 92

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/13/2008 5:49:28 PM

motofire

Posts: 910
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: likebikes

Take the CATRA "C" splits - cross em out and make em "B" splits.

That would be a huge mistake. That would make the gap between the 2 skills way too much.

I have yet to hear a good argument against having the C splits in place for sub Novice level rider. Not having the beginner rider on the main loop....that I can see, and agree with.

< Message edited by motofire -- 10/13/2008 5:50:36 PM >

Post #: 93

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/13/2008 8:35:42 PM

likebikes

Posts: 14
Joined: 9/22/2008
Status: offline

The "B" line should be easy. I felt my "B" lines were easy and not dangerous. Easy does not mean boring. You can still make them point takers. Dan was making comments on my event and he didn't even ride it.
Do you feel the "A" line is beyond the abilities of the top 5 of last year's SR B riders or Novice riders? Most moved up, some dominated.

The gate section proposal has nothing to do with rider transitioning to another class. It make for bettter section design and standardizes them to the National level.

Post #: 94

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/13/2008 10:03:44 PM

laser1

Posts: 127
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline

OK - I guess we just have a relative difference of the term easy. Personally. I would be happy if the all the events were your level of "easy".

If you want to effect the largest part of the rider population, why would you do anything based on the few top riders - you should be looking at the middle of the distribution. That said, to answer your question, I think last year had a bumper crop of very good Sr B's. I do know a guy who is finishing near the bottom of A and would probably would have easily won B this year. Also., a couple of the guys that moved up this year really dominated last year- and posted very low event scores at even the hardest events. They were clear outliers of the novice distribution. Many were using a different term for them last year. I dont think thats the case this year (tighter distribution). If you look at the most recent event in Exeter as a prime example, I think there were some very tough sections in the A and dont think anyone that I ride with in the B-class would have been upto the task without alot of bike/body abuse.

Many new (to trials) adult riders will not go in a class called beginner. Some T/M's layout the B-Line to account for this rider showing up. (like Dan was referring to) The C-line would let them ride with there buddies, get a taste for trials and let the T/M's put in some sections designed to challenge the average B- rider.

Its not like the current system doesnt work - its about making it better IMO.

Post #: 95

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/13/2008 10:23:09 PM

tbutland

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline

Trebor, I think you have captured the right concept about improving on what we already have. Its about fine tuning to support the dynamics of the sport and rider popuation who are supporting our events at this time. I believe adding the C line in Novice will help us move forward in this area.

Tom

Post #: 96

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/14/2008 6:28:16 AM

motohed

Posts: 396
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: ASHAWAY ,RI
Status: offline

Tom I am as green to this sport as any ,never having ridden an event ,2 of my 10 year old boys will be joining me this coming season, also new to trials . I think the c line split for me in a novice class would be the answer . beginner for my boys is a given . My concern on the extra line would be the number of loops for the class or classes . my reasoning if we are going to gain more people at theses events , won't we all need more time to complete the sections in a relatively safe manor. I under stand that that 30 or 40 people in an event has been the norm from what have read , a couple had almost 50. My question is if I bring 3 new people for every event ,and we get 70 to 80 regular riders will they all have sufficient time to complete the coarse . correct me if I am wrong ,but I think you are allowed three hours and then a half hour after that where points are lost .

_____________________________

Scott W Thompson
life time netra member
life time ama member
life time blue ribbon coalition
RIOHVA member
neta member
hog member
lets play in the mud,rocks, roots or maybe balance on a log it's all good !
ride it like you stole it !

Post #: 97

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/14/2008 8:09:23 AM

tbutland

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline

Hi Scott, first let me say thanks for your interest in trials and its great to hear a new family will be joining our trials community. The C line is already being used at many of our events, and what I'm proposing is to 1) make it mandatory & 2) have a few more riders use this line, as currently only the junior riders and occasionally some beginners use it. I am proposing that the riders who ride the c-line ride a max of 4 loops. Currently our junior riders 14 & under, ride 3 loops. Our events start at 11am & cutoff is 3pm, then we have till 3:30pm as a grace period,with some points added for being late, past the 3pm cutoff. I don't believe anyone riding 4 loops will have a time issue, there are some folks who currently ride 5 loops, who do occasionally have a time issue and some of those riders will have the option of riding the c-line and doing only 4 loops.

Post #: 98

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/14/2008 2:05:56 PM

TonyC

Posts: 93
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: offline

Although the next level lines look easier, it does take a signifigant improvement in skill to ride. If the TM is OK with adding a "c" line, then go ahead. Much better than the current Beginner line.
Again, going back to my NY event experience. We rod ethe same sections as everyone, so I watched novice as well as expert. In section one, you started over a fallen pine log, with lots of branch stubs still sticking out, then over a rock and immediate turn left. A little intmidating. Anyway, I watched a young girl face plant into the log. Shook her up. Didn't see her ride the rest of the day. Why not keep it simple for those that want it? Seems like there is a demand for easier lines.

Post #: 99

RE: proposed changes at annual neta mtg - 10/14/2008 8:43:50 PM

trialsgurl200

Posts: 4
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but how about making the proposed "C" line the beginner class? That way new adult riders won't mind riding the beginner class since they will be in the same sections as the novice/intermediate riders and not riding with just kids. Also, it would eliminate the need for separate beginner sections, which means less work for the organizer. Just a thought...

-Caroline

EDIT: Nevermind I guess this has already been mentioned.

< Message edited by trialsgurl200 -- 10/14/2008 9:13:13 PM >

Post #: 100