RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR

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RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/18/2010 10:18:58 PM

Posts: 334
Joined: 12/7/2009
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PSTR has made a commitment this year to the entire NETRA community to a host a real new england enduro. As trail boss, I've already burnt more time on planning and other necessary work on this event than I care to admit. A major step forward was made today with a positive outcome. I hope that we can keep cool and all work together and offer the NETRA community a great event come May.

Post #: 21

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/18/2010 10:29:57 PM

GEOFF

Posts: 118
Joined: 8/11/2005
From: Cape Cod
Status: offline

Great news trail boss! were right beside you all the way.

Post #: 22

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/18/2010 11:03:39 PM

chuggin

Posts: 139
Joined: 2/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Houred Out

This thread should be moved immediately to the PSTR forum, it is a club-specific matter. Moving it to Rides and Racing only serves to embarrass PSTR and give more voice and opportunity for 'input' from those who don't have the full picture nor a stake in the outcome.

Are you embarassed of this proposal?

Post #: 23

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/18/2010 11:37:20 PM

chuggin

Posts: 139
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RM

PSTR has made a commitment this year to the entire NETRA community to a host a real new england enduro. As trail boss, I've already burnt more time on planning and other necessary work on this event than I care to admit. A major step forward was made today with a positive outcome. I hope that we can keep cool and all work together and offer the NETRA community a great event come May.

Good to hear. I'm trying to get that warm,fuzzy feeling back. Thanks

Post #: 24

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 10:12:49 AM

Dav5049915

Posts: 2240
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Cape Cod, MA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuggin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Houred Out

This thread should be moved immediately to the PSTR forum, it is a club-specific matter. Moving it to Rides and Racing only serves to embarrass PSTR and give more voice and opportunity for 'input' from those who don't have the full picture nor a stake in the outcome.

Are you embarassed of this proposal?

You might have read what he said, but did you comprehend it?

To Dan the trail boss for the enduro, if you need any help regarding the enduro, don't hesitate to ask. There might be some grumbling going on, but this enduro still has PSTRs name on it. So if you need help working on the course, cutting, GPSing or whatever. Let us know.

Dave

Post #: 25

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 10:19:03 AM

chuggin

Posts: 139
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Houred Out

While there are strong opinions on several sides of this issue that will probably disagree with my characterization of the issue(s), here is the situation summary IMHO:

PSTR has grown to over 300 members. A vast majority of those members (at least 260) join PSTR only to ride in our Short Course series. The rest of the membership consists of two groups, I will label them the EO Enduro-only riders (~10 members) and MHS the More Hare-Scrambles-oriented (~30 members who primarily ride HS, occasional enduros, or just work PSTR events). With PSTR putting on upwards of 20+ events a year including NETRA hare scrambles, kids events, a NETRA enduro, Poker Runs, our Short Course series, etc.; there is a lot of work to do. There is little debate that the MHS group does at least 98% of the work behind the club.

The by-law change to require a member to reach a threshold of PSTR work points was driven from two concerns held by the MHS group:
1) The Short Course riders currently have full voting rights, and with their vast numbers could show up en masse to any meeting and take over the club.
2) Most of the EO group only appear at a PSTR gathering (including our twice-monthly meetings) once a year for a few hours on Enduro Day to work a check and get their required NETRA Enduro Series work credit.

Issue #2 above came to a head at a recent club meeting when a member of the MHS group submitted a motion to not have a PSTR enduro this year due to the hassle and low rider turnout. The EO group (which does have some very long term PSTR members in it who in the past contributed a lot) objected and a passionate debate erupted over whether someone who (for whatever reason) currently contributes very little if anything to the club should have the same rights as someone who - at minimum - shows up to work a few events and attends a few meetings a year.

Should be an interesting meeting...

So you fear the members taking over the club? I hope you realize your “MHS” took over the club and now feels threatened of losing your control.

Issue #2 After the “MHS” talked amongst yourselves, it decided without a vote (check the minutes of the meetings if you like) to break the past practice of 30 years PSTR putting on an enduro. Then proceeded to put in the news letter the enduro is cancelled and it is because the enduro guys are lazy. You failed to advertise and offer the change to the membership to vote on. (Afraid of a vote?)

The enduro riders took offense and showed up at the following meeting (12/1/09) and had to justify ourselves and enlighten the “MHS” to how much we have done and still do for the club. The following is what scares you into this proposed bylaw. After the voice of reason (John Rantuccio) spoke, a vote was taken and the enduro was put back on the schedule. The enduro riders had enough members in attendance. That scared you.

The Netra sanctioning meeting was only a few days away. We asked the club to write us the $100 check to bring to the sanctioning meeting to hold our enduro date. The vice president, who was chairing this meeting refused and said he doesn’t agree with it. (Even after a vote by the members?) Geoff W. took his own money and wrote the check to NETRA.

These are the (unabridged) minutes.
Matt Ostiguy

Post #: 26

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 10:47:23 AM

Dav5049915

Posts: 2240
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Cape Cod, MA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuggin

The vice president, who was chairing this meeting refused and said he doesn’t agree with it. (Even after a vote by the members?) Geoff W. took his own money and wrote the check to NETRA.

These are the (unabridged) minutes.
Matt Ostiguy

don't forget to mention that Geoff was reimbursed by the club promptly, as far as I know.

Just don't forget (and be honest), that if we hadn't tried to not put on the enduro, the "EO" crowd would still be business as usual. They would hopefully work their required day or two and the enduro, then never be heard from again due to their so very busy lives.

It's kind of nice now to see you guys around more often. I didn't even know half of you before you attended that meeting to vote that we put on the enduro. I really hope you guys can become more active in the club and see that the club actually cares for its members that do work. We just had an excellent banquet, we have some wives of club members that take good care of us workers during the events with food and anything else we might need. Don't forget that we all share a comon interest, DIRTBIKES. let's not try to forget this.

Post #: 27

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 11:34:21 AM

GEOFF

Posts: 118
Joined: 8/11/2005
From: Cape Cod
Status: offline

Yes I was reimbursed.
I think the work problem stems from the short course series wich is a great racing atmosphere for people enjoy that type of competition.
They also require a lot of workers. Maybee there should be work requirment within that series itself. Not every member of our club is interested in this format of riding nevermind showing up to work them when there is conflicting event (Enduro/ Turkey Run) on the same day somewhere else in New England.
As far as Enduro riders helping with the PSTR NETRA H.S They always have, atleast with course layout/route and trail work.
Trust me, you will see them out there in the wood in the next few weeks cleaning up the mess on the trails and making new ones for the Spring Challenge, just look for the guys with the license plate on the back of their bikes.

Post #: 28

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 4:58:00 PM

Tooch

Posts: 68
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: Plympton, MA
Status: offline

This bylaw change is outrageous if someone ever wanted to divide a club this bylaw change is the way to do it. It is obvious this bylaw is being proposed to shut down the enduro element in the club. I think that it is a pretty sleazy way to run a club. All dues paying members of the club should have a vote period. This bylaw will polarize the club to the point that it won’t be worth being a member of it. I didn’t spend thirty five years in this club to become a second class member.

Post #: 29

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 5:19:20 PM

skid Jackson

Posts: 1844
Joined: 11/18/2001
From: Manchester NH
Status: offline

Split it down the middle!!!
have two clubs ...

PSS ... Pilgram Sands Scramblers and
PSER ... Pilgram Sands Enduro Riders

Maybe a third ...
PSFR Pilgrm Sands Freeriders ....
for the guys who don't have time to do anything except send in a renewal fee, ride the local forest and sneak into the local events under the radar without doing any work!!

Post #: 30

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 5:39:53 PM

Tooch

Posts: 68
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: Plympton, MA
Status: offline

Sad, but thats what it looks like is going to happen. Maybe thats what a certain faction of the club wants. It is a shame to see such a good club be torn apart and divided like this. And we still have the voting issue!

Post #: 31

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 7:32:03 PM

chuggin

Posts: 139
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

The upcoming meeting on the bylaw proposal saddens me. It's a shame that this is the best proposal and only proposal being brought forward at this meeting. We failed the membership body. If we're worried about scoundrels infiltrating the club by just paying 20 bucks, then why don't we raise the bar on who becomes a member and not restrict the actual members.

Prospects. People who want to becomes members could be required to work an event and attend some meetings before being welcomed as a member. Solves some work issues and prevents some tree huggers from sneaking in and cutting all our tires. Until they are members they are prospects. Existing members won't have to be constantly trying to prove their worth to the club.

I brought it up at the meeting but I guess I wasn't heard. Most of those in attendance were on a fixed agenda.

We should be bringing the body back some worthy proposals to strenthen the club not divide it.

Post #: 32

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 8:29:25 PM

Dav5049915

Posts: 2240
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Cape Cod, MA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuggin

The upcoming meeting on the bylaw proposal saddens me. It's a shame that this is the best proposal and only proposal being brought forward at this meeting. We failed the membership body. If we're worried about scoundrels infiltrating the club by just paying 20 bucks, then why don't we raise the bar on who becomes a member and not restrict the actual members.

b/c that wouldn't solve the problem of the "scoundrels" that are already members.

I think maybe instead of complaining, you should submit some of these other bylaw proposals you've been thinking so hard about and let them also go up for vote.

just as we've learned with crying about netra, hardly anything gets changed by crying and playing victim on NEDB. Write a letter to Gordie with your proposed bylaw changes to get them in the newsletter. There is a process to getting stuff done.

Post #: 33

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 8:32:59 PM

Houred Out

Posts: 214
Joined: 4/5/2008
From: Plymouth, MA
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Houred Out

This thread should be moved immediately to the PSTR forum, it is a club-specific matter. Moving it to Rides and Racing only serves to embarrass PSTR and give more voice and opportunity for 'input' from those who don't have the full picture nor a stake in the outcome.

Are you embarassed of this proposal?

No. My point is that this issue is a club matter and should be resolved amongst the club membership, without dragging the entire NEDB readership into our internal issues. Your determination to put this thread into Rides and Racing appears to be a desperate attempt to recruit support from outside the club. While the proposal is not what I would have put forward if I was writing it, I respect the by-law process and feel that the result (whatever it is) will represent the wishes of the club's membership. You don't pass a measure requiring a 2/3rds vote without strong unilateral support.

I second Dave's sentiments that we are gratified to see the renewed involvement of the EO's since this controversy started, and hopefully we can emerge a more unified club. We absolutely need to rally behind Dan as the Enduro Trail Boss and give him the support he needs.

_____________________________

Chris Burton
NETRA - Vice President
Pilgrim Sands Trail Riders
08 KTM 450, 05 KTM 300, 79 Honda XR185, 77 Yamaha IT175, 75 Husky CR360, 75 Penton 250 Scrambler, 69 Yamaha DT1

Post #: 34

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 8:48:04 PM

chuggin

Posts: 139
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dav5049915

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuggin

The upcoming meeting on the bylaw proposal saddens me. It's a shame that this is the best proposal and only proposal being brought forward at this meeting. We failed the membership body. If we're worried about scoundrels infiltrating the club by just paying 20 bucks, then why don't we raise the bar on who becomes a member and not restrict the actual members.

b/c that wouldn't solve the problem of the "scoundrels" that are already members.

I think maybe instead of complaining, you should submit some of these other bylaw proposals you've been thinking so hard about and let them also go up for vote.

just as we've learned with crying about netra, hardly anything gets changed by crying and playing victim on NEDB. Write a letter to Gordie with your proposed bylaw changes to get them in the newsletter. There is a process to getting stuff done.

I'm reading the PSTR By-Laws now. It doesn't say call Gordie or the Treasurer. It says a motion must be made at a meeting and can't be voted on in the same meeting and the membership must be notified prior to the next scheduled meeting. That seems be exactly what I was trying to do.

Do you mean the existing scoundrel enduro riders?? I'm flattered.

Post #: 35

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 8:52:17 PM

Dav5049915

Posts: 2240
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Cape Cod, MA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuggin

I'm reading the PSTR By-Laws now. It doesn't say call Gordie or the Treasurer. It says a motion must be made at a meeting and can't be voted on in the same meeting and the membership must be notified prior to the next scheduled meeting. That seems be exactly what I was trying to do.

Do you mean the existing scoundrel enduro riders?? I'm flattered.

just using your words. you said "if WE'RE worried about scoundrels" as in WE the PSTR membership. dont try and put words in my mouth please.
i dont have anything against any type of rider/racer/dirtbike lover.

the membership must be notified, which is usually through the newsletter since EVERY PSTR member that put their correct mailing address gets a newsletter. i bet you 100$ that not EVERY PSTR member is on NEDB. hell, i know PSTR members that dont even have a computer.

so if you're to properly notify the whole PSTR membership, then you need to go through the newsletter, which Gordie is the editor / producer of.

just sayin.

Post #: 36

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 9:41:14 PM

KTMmc

Posts: 55
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline

Matt,
Maybe we should have your post translated to Portuguese for the Brazilians. I'm sure 3/4 of the members have computers but I know there are a few who can't read or write English also. We will have to get a few of those news letters translated to Portuguese.

Post #: 37

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/19/2010 9:46:23 PM

Dav5049915

Posts: 2240
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Cape Cod, MA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: KTMmc

Matt,
Maybe we should have your post translated to Portuguese for the Brazilians. I'm sure 3/4 of the members have computers but I know there are a few who can't read or write English also. We will have to get a few of those news letters translated to Portuguese.

All i'm saying is that if you're going to play by the rules, then you should follow them. only informing 75% of the membership is the same as informing 45% of them. The rule as matt put it is that the membership has to be informed, not just the pstr membership on NEDB or PSTR.org.

and i think those Portuguese members usually have at least one in the group who translates for them.

i see it at every short course...

< Message edited by Dav5049915 -- 2/19/2010 9:47:35 PM >

Post #: 38

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/20/2010 2:42:26 AM

uriehtm

Posts: 60
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: Salem, MA
Status: offline

I'll admit I'm one of the members guilty of showing up for a couple of work days to get my work credit, race some of the short course series and then vanish. My issue is that I work 6 days a week and it's tough enough for me to race and have half a life so I chose to do other things unless its racing. That being said I'm not against the 25 point rule to get work credit. I have the ability to fulfill that requirement, I just haven't been participating because I've chosen to do other things. I understand how frustrating it is for the members that do all the work and this rule will force guys like me to get more involved and help the club out.

What I don't understand is why everyone who races the short course series has to become a member. Why not have them pay a fee to race the series every year rather than buy a membership. Wouldn't that eliminate most of the 260 non active members and just reserve PSTR membership to local harescramble, enduro, and trail riders?

Post #: 39

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/20/2010 7:01:57 AM

GEOFF

Posts: 118
Joined: 8/11/2005
From: Cape Cod
Status: offline

quote:

What I don't understand is why everyone who races the short course series has to become a member. Why not have them pay a fee to race the series every year rather than buy a membership. Wouldn't that eliminate most of the 260 non active members and just reserve PSTR membership to local harescramble, enduro, and trail riders?

Iam pretty sure you have to be a member for insurance reasons and this would not solve the work/help issue.
It would be great if you could just pay and play everywhere you went racing. Remember this is a non profit club not GNCC.

Post #: 40