RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR

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RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/20/2010 7:32:27 PM

speedtimer

Posts: 12
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline

I would like to apologize to the people on N.E.D.B. for all the crying about the bylaw change proposals for PSTR.
It seems that the few that do the least cry the most because they might have to put in some work and support the
club and not get a free ride. If they have a legitimate gripe to bring to the PSTR members, why aren't they on the
PSTR website????
PSTR member since 1975

Post #: 61

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/20/2010 9:15:01 PM

chuggin

Posts: 154
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

That an easy one. I'm on NEDB because it where everyone goes for dirt bike info.

Post #: 62

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 10:37:38 AM

Tooch

Posts: 68
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: Plympton, MA
Status: offline

One membership one vote period. PSTR is the largest club in Netra but is trying to be run by a small group within the club. The second part of this bylaw change makes some sense because of the work rule requirement imposed by Netra. I am totally against the work to vote part of this bylaw change.

Post #: 63

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 2:26:18 PM

chuggin

Posts: 154
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

PSTR is having a work issue not a voting issue. Let's address this work issue with some common sense work proposals. I think all of our current members have proved by now they are not rogue agents in disguise (Solves Dave's concern of an infiltration) New signups become members after fulfilling some work credit and then become accepted as a PSTR member with equal rights.

We should address the members needs for Netra work credit in this same bylaw article. Our current way of giving members a chance to get Netra credit is unfair, arbitrary and too easily corruptable. I'm not saying anyone did anything corrupt, just that the process is not transparent and can easily become corrupt because of this flaw. Netra forces people to join a club and work an event and we as a club do not give many people that chance. We've even given preference to a worker who doesn't race or even compete in the series.

After a Trailboss picks his core team ( instead of the 1st come 1st served system we now have) The rest of the workers can come from a pool of members that have earned club credit. (Similiar to the existing proposal's work criteria except no minimum) Rank those eligible by the amount of credit earned. More work done equals more work credit and higher on the list. This keeps it fair, prevents favoratism and gets work done.

Voting needs to be kept to all members as a right. It can't be restricted.

Post #: 64

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 3:47:41 PM

Dav5049915

Posts: 2396
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Cape Cod, MA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuggin
. Netra forces people to join a club and work an event and we as a club do not give many people that chance. We've even given preference to a worker who doesn't race or even compete in the series.

Can you elaborate on this statement? From how i read it, it seems like you're saying that the list of workers (usually 15-20) for a netra event is also comprised of non netra racers?

The way it currently is, there are a certain amount of work slots created for a NETRA event that are filled with people who are to recieve NETRA work credit. Any other workers just get club activity points.
I worked the entire enduro last year and only received PSTR club activity credits.

this list of 15 slots was created to make it easier to turn outside people away. as you've heard in the meetings, there are usually 100 people that call up looking for a NETRA work credit. And we all know that there are plenty of club workers willing to put in the time and not even recieve a NETRA work credit for it. So limiting it to 15-20 (or whatever predetermined number) we are able to have that extra little bit of help, and provide club members with that NETRA credit.

I think we're going to have some good changes that this debate has brought up. There will also be a few more bylaw change proposals to look for.

Post #: 65

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 4:01:33 PM

krac

Posts: 143
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: Bedford MA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuggin

PSTR is having a work issue not a voting issue. Let's address this work issue with some common sense work proposals. I think all of our current members have proved by now they are not rogue agents in disguise (Solves Dave's concern of an infiltration)

Matt, your knowledge of club affairs is amazing since in the 5 years I have been a member I have never seen you at meeting until December, and now that your Enduro was threatened, you are like a bad rash and won't go away. Please don't talk like you have any insight into the workings of the club. Your information is all 2nd hand and tainted with a dislike for certain members.

My bylaw proposal requires participation points which for the most part are monthly meetings and help at the events, which most of the time is spent riding with friends.
Like I said at the meeting, PSTR can put on an event with only the regular members (BTW almost 80 people had 25 points) and don't need the extra baggage of once a year members showing up.

Matt you are the one with a "work issue".

See you at the meeting...

_____________________________

"The ablilty to speak does not make you intelligent!"

Post #: 66

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 5:22:42 PM

dritrider

Posts: 149
Joined: 5/29/2009
Status: offline

Well said Kenny. See you at the meeting.

Post #: 67

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 5:55:38 PM

chuggin

Posts: 154
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dav5049915

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuggin
. Netra forces people to join a club and work an event and we as a club do not give many people that chance. We've even given preference to a worker who doesn't race or even compete in the series.

Can you elaborate on this statement? From how i read it, it seems like you're saying that the list of workers (usually 15-20) for a netra event is also comprised of non netra racers?

The way it currently is, there are a certain amount of work slots created for a NETRA event that are filled with people who are to recieve NETRA work credit. Any other workers just get club activity points.
I worked the entire enduro last year and only received PSTR club activity credits.

this list of 15 slots was created to make it easier to turn outside people away. as you've heard in the meetings, there are usually 100 people that call up looking for a NETRA work credit. And we all know that there are plenty of club workers willing to put in the time and not even recieve a NETRA work credit for it. So limiting it to 15-20 (or whatever predetermined number) we are able to have that extra little bit of help, and provide club members with that NETRA credit.

I think we're going to have some good changes that this debate has brought up. There will also be a few more bylaw change proposals to look for.

I have PSTR hairscramble buddies that are not allowed to work their clubs Netra hairscramble. Some how they did not make the cut even though they have been contributing members and have helped out at more than just the hairscramble. 15-20? I don't see that anywhere in our constitution. I don't see a problem turning away non-members but to refuse our own from the opportinity then complain about too much work in the club is a slap in the face to that member. Are we not turning away PSTR netra hairscramblers who need netra work credit?
" We have too much work but don't need your help." That sounds like a contridiction to me.

Post #: 68

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 6:13:35 PM

Dav5049915

Posts: 2396
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Cape Cod, MA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuggin

I have PSTR hairscramble buddies that are not allowed to work their clubs Netra hairscramble. Some how they did not make the cut even though they have been contributing members and have helped out at more than just the hairscramble. 15-20? I don't see that anywhere in our constitution. I don't see a problem turning away non-members but to refuse our own from the opportinity then complain about too much work in the club is a slap in the face to that member. Are we not turning away PSTR netra hairscramblers who need netra work credit?
" We have too much work but don't need your help." That sounds like a contridiction to me.

the problem with your statement is that it's currently VERY EASY to become a PSTR member. Many of these buddies of yours might be members of other clubs ( i know you'll say they aren't) and they try to work the PSTR event because many people dont like to race it since the terrain can be pretty tough. The past few years, it's been made pretty clear (through the newsletter) that you need to contact the club on a first come first serve basis to get on that work list. There are plenty of riders who call up the same day they get the letter to commit to working the event. Then you get the groups who forget, or can't commit until they know they can't race the event (bike broken/not ready).

Post #: 69

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 6:16:13 PM

chuggin

Posts: 154
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

Kenny
"An injured friend is the bitterest of foes." Thomas Jefferson

You seem to like Tom Jefferson. He's my hero too.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." TJ again.

"you are like a bad rash and won't go away" Kenny

"PSTR can put on an event with only the regular members (BTW almost 80 people had 25 points) and DON'T NEED THE BAGGAGE OF ONCE A YEAR MEMBERS SHOWING UP." Kenny

These last two are yours. I hope the rest of the club (outside of your cliche') can see your agenda for themselves

You must be curious as how my "2nd hand info" is so correct?

< Message edited by chuggin -- 2/21/2010 6:25:38 PM >

Post #: 70

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 6:21:45 PM

chuggin

Posts: 154
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

I don't no how to say it any clearer. Please read all my post. I do not have a"work issue". I have a voting issue. Is this clear enough? You can have all the work requirements you want. I don't have issue until you tie it in with the right to vote.

Post #: 71

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 6:26:51 PM

Tooch

Posts: 68
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: Plympton, MA
Status: offline

Chuggin is right on. Krac remember that “extra baggage” you refer to are dues paying club members. Nice way to treat them! Maybe the club should have a limit on club membership to get rid of the extra baggage?

Post #: 72

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 6:28:54 PM

Dav5049915

Posts: 2396
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Cape Cod, MA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuggin

I don't no how to say it any clearer. Please read all my post. I do not have a"work issue". I have a voting issue. Is this clear enough? You can have all the work requirements you want. I don't have issue until you tie it in with the right to vote.

I really think it's all about the work requirements for you. I've been with the club for three years and i don't remember seeing you until these last few meetings. i know you're a busy guy being the sole breadwinner of your family. but i haven't seen you at any other meetings that we were voting on things.

however, bundled in with this same bylaw change is something you are very concerned about. and that this line as i quote from your first post " only those members who have accumulated a minimum of 25 work credits from PSTR will be voting members and qualified to work their club’s NETRA event! Do you want NETRA Championship work credit?"

you're obviously afraid that you will no longer be able to get a PSTR NETRA work credit without having to actually do work for your own club. but obviously you wouldn't want it to seem that you're only fighting this so you can continue to do the minimal amount of work to get a NETRA work credit.

but yes, by all means, protect your right to vote!

Post #: 73

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 6:47:51 PM

chuggin

Posts: 154
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dav5049915

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuggin

I don't no how to say it any clearer. Please read all my post. I do not have a"work issue". I have a voting issue. Is this clear enough? You can have all the work requirements you want. I don't have issue until you tie it in with the right to vote.

I really think it's all about the work requirements for you. I've been with the club for three years and i don't remember seeing you until these last few meetings. i know you're a busy guy being the sole breadwinner of your family. but i haven't seen you at any other meetings that we were voting on things.

however, bundled in with this same bylaw change is something you are very concerned about. and that this line as i quote from your first post " only those members who have accumulated a minimum of 25 work credits from PSTR will be voting members and qualified to work their club’s NETRA event! Do you want NETRA Championship work credit?"

you're obviously afraid that you will no longer be able to get a PSTR NETRA work credit without having to actually do work for your own club. but obviously you wouldn't want it to seem that you're only fighting this so you can continue to do the minimal amount of work to get a NETRA work credit.

but yes, by all means, protect your right to vote!

I'm flattered you think this is about me. This proposal will effect everyone. Enpower some,diminish others. I wanted to get members thinking of the different consequences of this proposal. Some won't care except for work credit reasons. Whatever the members concern (Noble or selfish), I hope they wake up and vote it down.

I guess I'm your senior member then,(I have more than 3 years).

< Message edited by chuggin -- 2/21/2010 7:41:40 PM >

Post #: 74

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 6:52:43 PM

Dav5049915

Posts: 2396
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Cape Cod, MA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuggin

I'm flattered you think this is about me. This proposal will effect everyone. Enpower some,diminish others. I wanted to get members thinking of the different consequences of this proposal. Some won't care except for work credit reasons. Whatever the members concern (Noble or selfish), I hope they wake up and vote it down.

I guess I'm your senior member then,(I got more than 3 years) I blew my work load years earlier.

I can't wait to put in my time so i can retire from working club events too! how many years was it for you? 5? 10?

I want members to show up and make recommendations and vote for what they want. I've heard from plenty of people who do not regularly attain the 25 club activity points that this bylaw is a good idea.

I have a feeling we won't be voting on just this one issue, like i said earlier, we'll have a couple other bylaw changes that i know of to vote on. i'll make sure to post them in the rides/races forum so all the PSTR members can see them.

Post #: 75

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 7:10:59 PM

chuggin

Posts: 154
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

Thanks.

Post #: 76

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 7:33:23 PM

fury1

Posts: 793
Joined: 8/29/2001
From: norton
Status: offline

Although im no longer a club member, why would the club vote to not put on the Enduro if they had a willing trailboss?

Post #: 77

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 7:45:47 PM

Dav5049915

Posts: 2396
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Cape Cod, MA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fury1

Although im no longer a club member, why would the club vote to not put on the Enduro if they had a willing trailboss?

I don't believe we had this trailboss before it was decided whether we were going to put on the event or not. Once it was voted that we would be putting on the enduro, Dan stepped up to the plate and will be leading the crew putting this race on.

Post #: 78

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 8:11:16 PM

bryan11000

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/27/2008
Status: offline

Dave,
I can't believe you refer to paying members as extra baggage. I don't work many events as I travel for work and am out of the country consistantly.

I also find it interesting that I was declined when asked 3 months ahead of time to work the PSTR challenge. How can one be expected to gain voting rights points when they are declined to work.

Bryan

Post #: 79

RE: ATTENTION ALL PSTR - 2/21/2010 8:14:17 PM

chuggin

Posts: 154
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

Decided amongst yourselves. Then by News Letter told the membership PSTR is not doing an enduro. Should have posted in the news letter it was up for a vote. But you think its your club. Then came the "rash" or "Excess Baggage" "EO's". So you put this Proposal out there to cure the "rash" hoping the "excess baggage" stays home for the vote. (Being made by now to feel too ashamed they haven't met your standards; to exercise their right to vote.)

Post #: 80